Thicker headgasket for turboing

[ZX2 Sleeper]

As most of you know, I'll be turboing my car. I plan on running 8 psi's on stock internals. If i was to change the head gasket to a thicker one, would it be safer to do that for the time being as I wait for my internals later? Also by changing the compression ratio to lower, will I be able to run more PSI's (10 or 12psi) and run a little safer then a stock head gasket?

[4U2QUIK]

it would take an amazingly thick hg to make a signifigant differancein compression.

[ZX2 Sleeper]

Cometic offers 0.027 to 0.065 (mm's i guess) head gaskets. I would imagine that has some effect.

[4U2QUIK]

wow... ummm....

[ZX2 Sleeper]

Don't be insulting. I'm asking a question here. Im sorry im not as knowledgeable as you.

[yellow2000S/R]

It will help but I wouldnt suggest doing it if you just plan on being able to up the boost.

If you are going to do it, just run the 8psi and do so slighly safer. BTW, those sizes are in inches.

[ZX2 Sleeper]

Thanks josh for an educated answer either then "wow....umm".

lol, and it makes sense now that you say inches. (rough day)

What size would be most beneficial?

[yellow2000S/R]

I wouldnt really even bother with it. Wait till you get internals till you replace your head gasket unless you are already having problems or it "should" be serviced based on mileage or whatever.

[ZX2 Sleeper]

Alright. Nope, my ZX2 is at a 100,000 something miles and its running like a kitten.

[Beodude123]

I wouldn't bother then. Your compression ratio wouldn't change enough to warrant the expense and time, not to mention you couldn't up the PSI.

[1turbofocus]

A HG change would drop your compression and would do it enough to be worth doing IF you were not limited in other places

You can safely run about 14 to 15 psi on all stock stuff so you goal with a good tune is fine and no need to change HG

Tom

[yellow2000S/R]

A HG change would drop your compression and would do it enough to be worth doing IF you were not limited in other places

You can safely run about 14 to 15 psi on all stock stuff so you goal with a good tune is fine and no need to change HG

Tom

Yea, maybe with retarded timing and running rich.

Calling 14-15psi "safe" is a bad statment. I'd call it, you better have an engine in good condition and a GREAT tune and even then its just a matter of a rod going.

I'd call 8-10 "safe" because you still have a buffer zone and arent pushing it. Even then 8-10 psi is "different" between turbos because of the actual amount of air they flow.

[Beodude123]

Here we go again. We know how Tom likes to push the Zetec until it's hairline ready to blow on stock parts. That's what he does, let's just leave it at that.

[ZX2 Sleeper]

Lol. I would never go that high of boost on stock internals. Im not trusting my tune that im getting because the guy never tuned a zetec, let alone a turbo'ed one.

My turbo is pretty big and will be pushing a lot of air. I think 8 psi's will be fun for a while. I just wanted to know if i could push the envelope sooner if i could do it.

[99fordzx2]

Honestly if it were me I wouldnt bother with the headgasket until you pulled the motor and were ready to build it. Why pull the motor apart to install a head gasket that will allow at BEST 1/2 a psi more of boost? Good luck on your project man its always cool to watch the build up of someone going turbo.


-D

[99fordzx2]

A HG change would drop your compression and would do it enough to be worth doing IF you were not limited in other places

You can safely run about 14 to 15 psi on all stock stuff so you goal with a good tune is fine and no need to change HG

Tom

Sure you dont mean on an SVTF zetec?



-D

[jjzx2sr]

i can get titan head gaskets .032" .043" .050" .062" .080" .093" thick...

[1turbofocus]

Yea, maybe with retarded timing and running rich.

Calling 14-15psi "safe" is a bad statment. I'd call it, you better have an engine in good condition and a GREAT tune and even then its just a matter of a rod going.

I'd call 8-10 "safe" because you still have a buffer zone and arent pushing it. Even then 8-10 psi is "different" between turbos because of the actual amount of air they flow.

I have the very first Zetec making 246HP from 2000 still running with 89,000 miles on it and over 200 passes at the drag strip and thats just one of about 50 still alive on stock engine making in the 240 to 250 range

Sure you have to have a good tune that is key at 8psi

Tom

[1turbofocus]

Here we go again. We know how Tom likes to push the Zetec until it's hairline ready to blow on stock parts. That's what he does, let's just leave it at that.

Im not sure where you get your info but I NEVER push an engine to where it is at its limit or close to it , I have made 320HP on the ALL STOCK ZX3 engine testing its limits and never found a limit so 250 is a good safe number that my customers have been running for about 8 years

Please know what your talking about before you make statements like that

Tom

[ZX2Fast]

I just can't see any engine with powdered rods making over 300 whp as a daily driver for long. It is really going to come down to tuning. You might be able to get away with 250whp on a stock Zetec if your tuning is dead-on. That means, don't just go for peak power, go for reliable power. The slight difference in fuel quality can blow an engine that is tuned to its' limit.

If a stock Zetec can safely run 350 whp, then why is anyone buying rods and pistons for them? I'm not talking about a race gas trailer car. I'm talking about 91 octane pump gas commuter car.

[1turbofocus]

Who said you could make 350 on the stock Zetec ? I said I pushed one to 320 to see if it would make it to that power as part of my R&D back in 2000

Tuning is the key and with a proper tune 250 is a VERY safe number for the Zetec engine add the J&S Safeguard and your covered with a very reliable knock devise

Tom

[ZX2 Sleeper]

Who said you could make 350 on the stock Zetec ? I said I pushed one to 320 to see if it would make it to that power as part of my R&D back in 2000

Tuning is the key and with a proper tune 250 is a VERY safe number for the Zetec engine add the J&S Safeguard and your covered with a very reliable knock devise

Tom

Im not looking to see what my limit is. But I don't mind blowing a ZETEC, i have a few extra laying around. But i'd rather not blow it and find out what else it'll destroy.

[99fordzx2]

*popcorn smiley goes here*



-D

[ZX2Fast]

Who said you could make 350 on the stock Zetec ? I said I pushed one to 320 to see if it would make it to that power as part of my R&D back in 2000

Tuning is the key and with a proper tune 250 is a VERY safe number for the Zetec engine add the J&S Safeguard and your covered with a very reliable knock devise

Tom

The '5' key is just above the '2' key, so I meant to type 320. You make it sound like that just because the Zetec handeld 320 whp once, that 250 whp should be a breeze. That just isn't a reliable number for that reason. Members have blown a stock Zetec (daily driven) at 230 whp after being dyno-tuned. I would say 220 is pushing it, but 200 is perfectly safe. If you do want to run 250 whp, then it better not be your only car. I would guess I'm making about 180 whp. I've been running a base tune and boost for two years. This is the original factory engine with 180,000 miles. I've thought about turning the boost up (it holds no less then 7 psi) but I don't want to do it until I get the PRP. Even then, I won't go past 10 psi on this Super 60.

[1turbofocus]

The '5' key is just above the '2' key, so I meant to type 320. You make it sound like that just because the Zetec handeld 320 whp once, that 250 whp should be a breeze. That just isn't a reliable number for that reason. Members have blown a stock Zetec (daily driven) at 230 whp after being dyno-tuned. I would say 220 is pushing it, but 200 is perfectly safe. If you do want to run 250 whp, then it better not be your only car. I would guess I'm making about 180 whp. I've been running a base tune and boost for two years. This is the original factory engine with 180,000 miles. I've thought about turning the boost up (it holds no less then 7 psi) but I don't want to do it until I get the PRP. Even then, I won't go past 10 psi on this Super 60.

The key is the tuning , if you have a good safe tune I have MANY customers for years and 10`s of thousands of miles running the 240/250 range problem free that is what I am making my opinion off of not the one that did 320

If you dont feel safe with your tune/tuner to go past 200 then dont, I have tuned 100`s of the Zetec engines and know what a good safe HP is and if you go to other boards and look around like www.focusfanatics.com you will see that that number will come yo regularly again its all in the tuning , maybe you guys need to change tuners I dont know , I do know with a good safe tune 250 is good for years or DD

Tom

[ZX2Fast]

No one wants to really touch a turbo ZX2 or they think they can apply the same knowledge from the Focus Zetec to the ZX2 Zetec. Somehow it doesn't seem to work that way. Since tuners are randomly reliable, just stick with 220 whp as a safe number.

[ZX2 Sleeper]

Im sticking with what ever 8 psi gives me. If its making too much power, i'll lay off the pedal. I also have a bigger turbo so it'll take a lot to get it to move anyway.

[1turbofocus]

No one wants to really touch a turbo ZX2 or they think they can apply the same knowledge from the Focus Zetec to the ZX2 Zetec. Somehow it doesn't seem to work that way. Since tuners are randomly reliable, just stick with 220 whp as a safe number.

If you cant make 250 safely I would say the tuners are not randomly reliable

I build the engines , turbocharge and tune on both the ZX2 and ZX3 and have been able to apply the knowledge from one to the other with out any issues at all , that was a foolish statement

Tom

[ZX2Fast]

About as foolish as that 319 whp ZX2 you built only running for a week. If you are going to say I'm foolish for trying to keep this guy in a safe number, then I'm going to start dragging skeletons (of ZX2's) out of your closet.

[Escort Pimp]

In

[inis]

In

ibtl

[ZX2guy19]

Lol didn't dropdatscort throw a rod at 232whp after only a short time with an AMAZING tune?

Either way, I wouldn't go past 220-230 on a stock motor. Unless it has like 30-50k miles.

[Beodude123]

Mileage has nothing to do with it.

[ZX2guy19]

Are you serious?

Ok, run 240whp on a properly tuned 180k motor, and then run 240whp on a properly tuned 30k mileage motor and see which lasts longer.

[Escort Pimp]

Are you serious?

Ok, run 240whp on a properly tuned 180k motor, and then run 240whp on a properly tuned 30k mileage motor and see which lasts longer.

If you're past the hp that the engine can safely handle they will break in the same amount of time. I had a 50k engine last about 2 months with around 220whp with a good tune.

[ZX2guy19]

Then I would imagine one with 180k lasting about 1 month, if that.

[Escort Pimp]

Then I would imagine one with 180k lasting about 1 month, if that.
Miles aren't the end all of how long an engine will last. You could have a 30k engine thats beat to shit or a 100k+ that was properly maintained and babied most of the time.

[1turbofocus]

About as foolish as that 319 whp ZX2 you built only running for a week. If you are going to say I'm foolish for trying to keep this guy in a safe number, then I'm going to start dragging skeletons (of ZX2's) out of your closet.

Again you dont know what you talking about , I have no skeletons just idiots that dont know what there talking about out running there mouth about things they know nothing about , Funny that kid sold his engine to a guy in Fl that installed and and ran it for years , then sold it to some one else , get your facts straight

Go to www.focusfanatics.com and ask around on what is the safe limits of the zetec engine , I beleive you will find the majority of guys that know what there talking about say in the 240/250

If you lost an engine and had HP at 240/250 its because or a poor tune or tuned for 93 and you got 91 or 89 , it wasent because the engine could not take that amount of HP

Everyone needs to set there boost to what they feel is safe for there tuners ability , I have a few zx2 making good numbers on the stock engine for a long time and more on my built engines making in the 300 range and hundreds in the Focus community to that speaks for it self

Tom

[1turbofocus]

Miles aren't the end all of how long an engine will last. You could have a 30k engine thats beat to shit or a 100k+ that was properly maintained and babied most of the time.

I agree , boost is no harder in an engine with 200,000 then one with 50,000 you just may have more blowby , do a compression test if all looks good add boost

Tom

[inis]

Again you dont know what you talking about , I have no skeletons just idiots that dont know what there talking about out running there mouth about things they know nothing about , Funny that kid sold his engine to a guy in Fl that installed and and ran it for years , then sold it to some one else , get your facts straight

Go to www.focusfanatics.com and ask around on what is the safe limits of the zetec engine , I beleive you will find the majority of guys that know what there talking about say in the 240/250

If you lost an engine and had HP at 240/250 its because or a poor tune or tuned for 93 and you got 91 or 89 , it wasent because the engine could not take that amount of HP

Everyone needs to set there boost to what they feel is safe for there tuners ability , I have a few zx2 making good numbers on the stock engine for a long time and more on my built engines making in the 300 range and hundreds in the Focus community to that speaks for it self

Tom

If I recall correctly, he got rid of it because YOU couldn't get the tune right...and he got tired of going back and forth to you. He sold the engine because he wanted out of the mess. I'm sure the engine was fine, but the tune was shit. Plain and simple.

[ZX2 Sleeper]

Everyone stop posting in this thread. It got way to derailed and my question has been answered already.

[2000ZxT]

I just have one thing to say.

When Tom comes around can we please not chase him away? He is extremely knowledgeable, as it is his business. I'm not trying to say people here don't know what they are talking about, but he has been in this game a long time.

It's just every time he comes around he gets bashed....kind of gets on my nerves. Yes 240whp is high, but our own Tom was running a GT35 on a stock block. It didn't last terribly long but he had a lot of fun and it was a stuck wastegate than ended up killing his engine, not the prescribed amount of boost.

To answer the actual question. I would go with the Cometic .065 gasket, you'll need new head bolts (Felpro's from Rock Auto). Obvioulsy don't plan on running more boost but it will drop your CR to just a tad over 9:1, what most people go with on their turbo builds...In accordance with a good tune 210-220whp should last quite a long time.

[1turbofocus]

If I recall correctly, he got rid of it because YOU couldn't get the tune right...and he got tired of going back and forth to you. He sold the engine because he wanted out of the mess. I'm sure the engine was fine, but the tune was shit. Plain and simple.

Yet another member that hasent a clue what he is talking about , The tune was spot on and ran a good bit before he had trouble 3 months , then he started having trouble with it starting (starting is the only issues he EVER HAD ) the issues would come and go now as a claimed tuner you know that a tune wont make issues come up that come and go , if the tune is bad its allways bad , So please know what your talking about before you show everyone ho uninformed you are

Tom

[Unlikely Hero]

Everyone stop posting in this thread. It got way to derailed and my question has been answered already.


Done and done, too much bitching in this anyhow.

=Jason-