How to LSD your ZX2

[lamouche98zx2]

Ok here's my tread about the MSP LSD.

Part List for the tranny:

1x MazdaSpeed Protégé LSD 2003 or 2003.5 around 500$
2x Carrier Bearing one on each side of the diff oem 42$ each around 25$ each from a bearing store #42008X
1x VSS gear (pink) you can use the old one from the oem diff new 33$ from Ford
2 x axles seals around 8$ each
2 x locking nuts for both shafts around 15$ each




1 MazdaSpeed Protégé LSD 2003 or 2003.5
http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/msplsd.jpg
(TFFOWIA Picture)
available from:
http://www.streetunit.com/Mazda_OEM_p/su127190.htm

http://siteground207.com/~protegeg/product_info.php?products_id=685



pictures of mine
http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/msp-lsd1.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/msp-lsd2.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/msp-lsd3.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/msp-lsd4.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/msp-lsd5.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/diff2.jpg

I know i dont have to replace the ringgear to get it to fit in the tranny
but i get the diff with a broken ringgear for a dirt cheap price....



i case you'll need to go the same route than me
www.corksport.com
you need to ask for the arp stud kit it only come with the quaife diff.
be prepare to pay 200$ for 10 studs and nuts...
you need to shave the shift gate a bit to get the arp bolt to pass
http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/diff11.jpg



to get the vss gear into place you need to machine the seat where the gear goes ...as the msp doesnt need it it use a abs sensor to get the speed reading. You can just grind a bit of the vss gear at you own risk...



here's without machining it stand to high
http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/speedo.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/vss1.jpg
here's after machining
http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/machined.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/speedo1.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/speedo2.jpg



you can get the diff welded but since they corrected the problem with the revised version of the LSD you dont need to get it welded.
http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/welds.jpg
http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/souder.jpg

here some more pics

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/tranny1.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/tranny2.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/tranny3.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/tranny4.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/tranny5.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/tranny6.jpg




Axles:
i did get mine from : Atelier Hp here in quebec
http://www.atelierhp.com/page/home.php?language_id=2
we have 2 other set going on now as we speak.


http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/cardans1.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/cardans2.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/cardans3.jpg
close shot of the splines

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/splines.jpg

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/splines1.jpg

the only problem with the use of MX-3 V6 axles is the midshaft is not the same pattern
http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/midshaft.jpg

that's why we did make an adaptor to get it fit.

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/adaptorplate.jpg
http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/adaptorplate1.jpg

and here's the result of this installation...

http://www.festivalfamille.ca/lamouche98zx2/test-de-lsd1.jpg

i think thoses info can help you to get a lsd in your tranny.



here's a link with alot of pics
http://www.sharkpork.com/gallery/v/vehick/wagon/trans/

[TTFOWIA]

here is mine... Axles on their way :D

http://images.srlounge.ath.cx:81/zx2/sr/tranny0.JPG
http://images.srlounge.ath.cx:81/zx2/sr/tranny1.JPG

^^ LSD inside

[scort2498]

honestly is it worth the money?

[corby_baby]

honestly is it worth the money?

lol

[TTFOWIA]

I dont even know why you are asking. yes it is. especially when you are putting down 300+whp

[kln5014]

Does the S/R come with a limited slip differential? On this site it lists a ford racing part number for a lsd used on the s/r http://www.geocities.com/ford_zx2_sr/

"Limited slip differential-M-4204-Z2"

[phosphite]

No, the S/R doesn't have a LSD. There is a Quaife LSD that was available that costs a lot of money, it might still be available, I don't know.

If you're going to turbo the ZX2, then it's well worth the money to do this, especially to avoid the weak stock diff.

[TTFOWIA]

no there is no such thing. a theory is that SVT were planning on a LSD but dropped the project. that would be the reason behind the part number

[ZX2 S/R Black]

Curious... what would be the next thing to go tranny wise now? Gears? or would it be more likely to snap an axle? I remember on the old MSP how to someone talked about using ZXtuner axles... but that's not possible right? cause the spline count is different then what the mazda ones are right?

[ZX2 S/R Black]

is there any kind of warranty you get with the MSP DIF?

[TTFOWIA]

hm... no idea. guess not. cuz we modify it to fit the VSS gear. and hem... the mx3 v6 axles are much more solid (5 bearings instead of 3) so no. the axles will be fine enough..

next step I guess would be the gears... but in my old tranny I ABUSED, the gears were BRAND NEW. so I guess they can take quite a lot.

[spacemanspiff]

Ok, so the ring gear from the MSP LSD will fit, right?

[aaronrun]

MAZDASPEED Protege Updated Limited Slip Differential (LSD)
Our Price: $459.00
Sale Price: $526.00

:run: Today and today only!

[KnightJovian]

Question...
What is the Diff between a 'phantom grip' and a lsd?

[ZX2 S/R Black]

I think a real LSD is gear based where a phantom grip is clutch based... the PG just presses two pieces of metal against the side gears which prevents them from slipping.

Someone else may be able to explain it better... but from what I know that is the answer

[TTFOWIA]

Ok, so the ring gear from the MSP LSD will fit, right?

to get the vss gear into place you need to machine the seat where the gear goes ...as the msp doesnt need it it use a abs sensor to get the speed reading.

answers your question?

[tre2000zx2]

waht was "MODDED" on the mx6 axles i.e. HOW were they modded?

[TTFOWIA]

not mx6. mx3 v6.

and they were shortened. and we also need a bracket to use the midshaft from the mx3 v6

[tre2000zx2]

not mx6. mx3 v6.

and they were shortened. and we also need a bracket to use the midshaft from the mx3 v6

My bad on the mx3 v6 vs mx6 confusion.. I saw the silver bracket ... so theyre SHORTENED.. how much is that shop charging for the set of axles?

[TTFOWIA]

we dont know yet. I just called them today and they misunderstood us when I first talked to them... they were waiting for lamouche to come and show them his set. but in fact we asked them to check and make a new set out of mx3 v6 axles (we brought them stock zx2 axles) without needing us to remove lamouche's from his car.

its been a year since they made lamouche's set so they didnt remember the exact mods to do.

normally, it SHOULD be around 500 (including the axles and the midshaft from the mx3 v6)

[mechtech]

You will need to shim the unit for proper preload in the case.

[ZX2 S/R Black]

For the price of this it is more resonable to go MTX-75 swap... that way nothing has to be done to a Quaife dif... drops right in the MTX-75... you'd still have to get custom axles, you'd have to get the speedo to work... plus the rest of the fabrication and a custom mount....sure, a little more work, but you have a way stronger trans.... and bigger aftermarket with way more clutch options...people have had those to more than 500hp

just my opinion on this whole thing....

Think either someone should go PG... an if they want to go farther... Quaife MTX-75... unless quaife ever makes an LSD for our G5M

[lamouche98zx2]

come play with me with your phantom grip tranny and i'm sure at the end of the day you go back home on a towing... speaking by experience ... how many trannies i did see with an open tranny case because the phantom explose ...too much... everybody with klze swap in their probe even with turbo goes with a msp lsd so it can withstand enough power to do the job. Mine coming off and 323 with a bp pullin 385hp at the wheels.

[03zx2]

How much would you charge to have all this installed?Since you are experienced on this swap.

[ZX2 S/R Black]

come play with me with your phantom grip tranny and i'm sure at the end of the day you go back home on a towing... speaking by experience ... how many trannies i did see with an open tranny case because the phantom explose ...too much... everybody with klze swap in their probe even with turbo goes with a msp lsd so it can withstand enough power to do the job. Mine coming off and 323 with a bp pullin 385hp at the wheels.

Impressive... But I wonder how much of a difference it makes... obviousley it's way stronger... do you know how much the MSP is rated to? I wonder what the Focus Quaife is rated to as well :shrug:


How much was everything once everything was done axles included? 1.5K?

[scort2498]

and y couldn't we use the lsd made for the focus? just swap trannies and but the focus lsd in?seems it would be easier than modifying everything.

[Blue ZX2]

Or you could just use the good ol Lincoln locker, for those of you who are four wheelers...

Lincoln locker
http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/Feb%2006/images/welded%207-5.jpg

Im sure a ton of you are going to flame it, but If done right they hold up very well. Iv ran them on a few vehicles and never had any problems.

[tre2000zx2]

and y couldn't we use the lsd made for the focus? just swap trannies and but the focus lsd in?seems it would be easier than modifying everything.

you can ..its the mtx75 swap they spoke of.. its not a bolt up lotta modifications needed .. cutting the left side framerail.. focus uses a cable shifter unlike ours thats another big diff.. no EASY way for it to work with our instrument cluster.. those are just a few reasons

[lamouche98zx2]

theres some guy here with welded diff but it's just for drag application or rally.

i know someone here that can fill the space between the spider gears with some sort of washer then jam everything by soldering everthing together....but i told me try to turn on dry pavement and you will cry..

[TTFOWIA]

yeah, welded diff is not a good idea when its not for drag only use. the LSD option is the best option. the PG will simply DESTROY your transmission if it decides to break. We have someone here in the clubzx2quebec that destroyed a transmission because of a PG.

[spacemanspiff]

Ok, dumb question, can the u-joints be taken apart on the axles to put an end on our axle that has the correct spline count? They look similar.

jeff

[2001zincsr]

on my swap I machined the speed ring instead of the carrier. I also went with custom axles from zxtuner to support my build. I havent had a problem and the LSD takes 2nd gear burn outs with no problem. I havent had any problems with the diff not locking up either. I would sometimes break traction at the top of third but both wheels would spin evenly.

[TTFOWIA]

Ok, dumb question, can the u-joints be taken apart on the axles to put an end on our axle that has the correct spline count? They look similar.

jeff

no. zx2 axles: 3 bearings, mx3 v6: 5bearings

[ravensguildassasin]

i rember reading on the old site about kia sphia axles did we ever get that figured out like year and such.

[Sir William]

Skuce has a set, and for sure they'll work in his second gen..... they are a bit shorter than the ZX2's axle so no one has been brave enough to try them.

Comparing mine next to skuce's sephia axles.... it'd be close.

Having said that I'm getting a set made with ttfowia

[ravensguildassasin]

what year are they out of if i do this i will try them out. it is only a 1/3 or 1/2 inch difference if i remember right. that will have little affect on it.

[nlsolja123]

the kia axles are a little stronger axles due to them being thicker

[TTFOWIA]

mx3 v6 axles > kia axles >(?) stock axles

[zx2reme]

For the price of this it is more resonable to go MTX-75 swap... that way nothing has to be done to a Quaife dif... drops right in the MTX-75... you'd still have to get custom axles, you'd have to get the speedo to work... plus the rest of the fabrication and a custom mount....sure, a little more work, but you have a way stronger trans.... and bigger aftermarket with way more clutch options...people have had those to more than 500hp

just my opinion on this whole thing....

Think either someone should go PG... an if they want to go farther... Quaife MTX-75... unless quaife ever makes an LSD for our G5M

The reason you don't go with a pg, is the fact that it retains the stock differential. Someone asked earlier what's the difference. Mainly it is durability. Aftermarket LSD's are meant to handle the abuse and more hp that the factory diff can't. If you use a phantom grip, the result will be the same for traction, but the stock diff will still wear down and eventually fail. For some of us, it failed immediatley. Drag radials and a phantom grip = hole in the top of the tranny and a diff that exploded in a million pieces on a N/A setup.

As for the MTX-75, that swap is easier said than done. There is a reason only one person has done it. The cost and hearteache of doing this swap isn't really worth it. Sure you have a few more aftermarket possibilities, but those products aren't much better than what is available for the g5m. Plus you are looking at a considerable amount more money. Axles alone are pricey because there isn't a stock set of axles that swap over to this setup like the lsd swap. It has to be custom. Then on top of that, the gearing in a MTX-75 sucks in comparison. Just my .02.

[ZX2 S/R Black]

Lamouche or whatever your name was... how much did this swap cost you all said and done?

[TTFOWIA]

you cant rely on a price lamouche would give you cuz he found a guy that sold him the diff + the axles. you can however rely on my price since Im getting it done the SAME way lamouche is (same shop, and I am even copying his bracket)... its gonna be around 1500 for the complete swap.

[lamouche98zx2]

i'ved paid 500$ for the diff and axles. the diff was used 5000km but with a broken ring gear... the axles were brand new... the guy that sold me the kit has 2 kits (2 tranny with an msp lsd in + 2 axles set) and he was running them in a 323 with a bpt.He did broke the pinion gear that drive the ringgear at the drag strip pulling 385 whp... so he did sell me the the lsp with the broken ringgear and the spare axle set that he had in his garage.. i did use my ringgear from my old diff and ordered some arp bolts from corksport for around 200$.

[catch23.5]

since you guys have done this swap ,then what is the barring claerence

[lamouche98zx2]

same as oem for mine we took the mesure and it's the same than oem and the tranny that i used as around 30000miles i didn't replace the bearing cup so i'ved kept the same shims for now since last spring when we did the swap i did 13000km with the tranny and everything still strong on the lsd side the rest of the tranny i still be careful with forks and synchros...!!

[spacemanspiff]

Where is the best place to get the Mx3 axles, and what years, or does it matter?

[catch23.5]

i was reading the how to but they dont say what exactly was done to the xm3 axel,and how to do it ,i have a friend that works at a shop and he might be able to do it if i can see how it was done

[TTFOWIA]

1. you need the mx3 v6 midshaft and you need to make a custom bracket to adapt it on our block.
2. you need to do whatever is needed to make the axles the same length as ours. (of course, if the midshaft is longer, you need to remove this difference in length to the passenger side axles as well.

[GAZX2]

I think the easiest way to do this would be to get some mx3 axles and control arms, then you could do like all the escorts and protege's with v6 swaps, You wouldnt need custom axles just an alignment.

U'd still need the bracket made tho. but if you decide to swap a v6 later u would have almost everything

[catch23.5]

would this mean that i need the arms nucle and what about the fsb links or so we still use the one from the mx3 or our cars, this would be the cheapest method to do the swap ,any other people do this ,more in fo please.

[ZX2Fast]

I think the easiest way to do this would be to get some mx3 axles and control arms, then you could do like all the escorts and protege's with v6 swaps, You wouldnt need custom axles just an alignment.

U'd still need the bracket made tho. but if you decide to swap a v6 later u would have almost everything

I've considered that, but I'm afraid it'll look odd with the front tires sticking out more. Does anyone have pictures of MX3 arms on the front?

[catch23.5]

how much further do they stick out , im just curious becouse i cant get them for cheap and this would make everything easier anyways an inch or a bit more wont really do much if you think about it and if i were to get the rear assemly of the mx3 it would make it look normall, nut im a new so im trying to learn so any insight would be appreciated

[Psychotuner]

I blew my differential the LAST TIME! It's Time I welded it or LSD'd it! But I cannot find someone to make custon axles.

[Psychotuner]

Doesnt Mr.Weeyums have the MX-3 control arms and hubs? does his wheels stick out? Do they in fact bolt it place?

[TTFOWIA]

I will get my axles for the 3rd time on monday, at the same time, I will proceed with the info gathering I wanted to do so I can start selling those custom axles. I'll let you know.

[corby_baby]

any updates on the axles? how much does it look like they will cost?

[ZX2guy19]

Shawn, the biggest thing is the MX3 axles don't bolt to our block, so you'll have to have a plate made.

[Psychotuner]

I can make the plate, no problem. But I want to get a for sure on what year make and modle axles to buy for? Mx3 Mx6 or Kia's ? Seems the guys that swap in the 323 gtr motors in there escorts used the Kia Sephia axles and they bolt right in.

[corby_baby]

the mx3 axles you need are to an mx3 V-6. i think if you get the regular mx3 axles they wont work.

[MrWeeyums]

The only suspension part youll need to change is the a-arms. The zx2 balljoint bolts to them. Then either drill out the a arms to mount the zx2 swaybar endlinks, or use mx3 swaybar endlinks. The front track will be 1" wider overall, but its not bad and i think it gives the car a better stance. Run spacers in the rear if u want them to line up. Just get the mx3 V6 a arms and axles. Any V6 year will work, i think theyre 93-95 or somethin like that.
~Ryan

[corby_baby]

The only suspension part youll need to change is the a-arms. The zx2 balljoint bolts to them. Then either drill out the a arms to mount the zx2 swaybar endlinks, or use mx3 swaybar endlinks. The front track will be 1" wider overall, but its not bad and i think it gives the car a better stance. Run spacers in the rear if u want them to line up. Just get the mx3 V6 a arms and axles. Any V6 year will work, i think theyre 93-95 or somethin like that.
~Ryan

just what i needed to hear. thanks ryan :]

[Psychotuner]

the mx3 axles are 26 trans 26 hub ? Im assuimg our stock axles were 26 and 26 right ?

[ZX2guy19]

The stock axles are 26. The mx3 are 28.

[Psychotuner]

Doesnt make sence, how is the mx3 v6 axle going to work if the HUB is still 26 spline?

[ZX2Fast]

Our hub is 26, as is the MX3. Our diff is 28, the MX3 (the MSP LSD as well) is 26. I think Ford did that on purpose to keep us from using the MSP parts.

[TTFOWIA]

wrong. we are 26-26... the msp is 28 and the mx3 v6 diff is 28 too

[lamouche98zx2]

ford did stop the zx2 in 2003 and the msp hit the market in 2003.5....ford didnt change anything on the mechanical side since 97 in the zx2 except some revision like the timing belt idler...

[ZX2guy19]

wrong. we are 26-26... the msp is 28 and the mx3 v6 diff is 28 too

Correct.

[Psychotuner]

For those worrie about snapping axles after 350 whp and lsd, http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/cart///74229

[Psychotuner]

Read this, LOTS of Mazdspeeds LSD have failed

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64821

[ZX2Fast]

wrong. we are 26-26... the msp is 28 and the mx3 v6 diff is 28 too

Yeah, I told Psyco that after I posted this. I forgot to edit it.

[Psychotuner]

right I am still con fused as if we are 26-26, then how in the hell are mx3 axles going to work if they are 28/28 ? im guessing weeyums used them no probolems so they HAVE to be 28 trans 26 hub

[ZX2guy19]

Because the msp is 28. Why else would we need custom axles?

[Psychotuner]

Mrweeyums DID not need custom axles!

[ZX2guy19]

MrWeeyums DOES NOT have a ZX2 transmission.

[TTFOWIA]

MrWeeyums DOES NOT have a ZX2 transmission.

qft

[mellowness65]

didnt he use pretty much a mx3 front end? I think I remember someone saying front track would be about an inch wider from that, but it wouldnt really be noticeable

[ZX2guy19]

It is everything from a MX3 v6 except for the hubs. A arms, axles, trans, motor.

[mellowness65]

You shut your mouth when you're talking to me.

[ZX2guy19]

Yeth Mastha

[Psychotuner]

I know but weeyums STIll has the zx2 HUBS !

im going to stop arguing in this thread imma just do what weeyums told me and be done.

[ZX2guy19]

No shit he still has the hubs, his car just left my house a little bit ago. So think about this...he has a mazda trans with ZX2 hubs...meaning the other side of his mx3 axles are the same spline as a zx2, so I guess they'd be 28-26

[MrWeeyums]

Theres no need for arguement over this. Its all explained in my writeup in the how-to section. Zx2 hubs, Zx2 ball joints, mx3 a-arms.
~Ryan

[corby_baby]

nowai

[ZX2Fast]

right I am still con fused as if we are 26-26, then how in the hell are mx3 axles going to work if they are 28/28 ? im guessing weeyums used them no probolems so they HAVE to be 28 trans 26 hub

The MX3 axles are 26 on the hub side just like the ZX2 axles are. The problem is that our axles are 26 on the diff side where the MSP (and MX3 axles) are 28 spline.

[lamouche98zx2]

for those who said the lsd was easy to break they are not worng for the 1st gen that came in the car (the model with spring in it) but all lsd sold since 2004 as replacement part is the revised version with no spring (torsen type). and that revision i've never heard of a failure. i beat the hell out of mine since 20000km and it still like the day i've put it in. and the owner of that lsd before me used it in a drag racing 323 with nearly 400whp and the diff still strong. The only part you will need to check it's the pinion gear that drive the ringear that is like to break around 400whp like mine did it the 323.

[Psychotuner]

zx2fast might know,
How would one replace the bearing(S) in the midshaft housing? Might kow a part number for the mx-3 v6 midshaft bearings? Id like to see if my local bearing place has it.

[ZX2Fast]

There should be a number on the bearing that can be cross-referenced. Is the bearing bad on the one you got?

[Psychotuner]

well, compared to the zx2 halfshaft it barely spins. the zx2 one spins without ease.

[lamouche98zx2]

if youre thinking about swapping the inner shaft they are not the same lenght. the mx3 is longer than the zx2 one.

[Psychotuner]

BTW, My Mx3 V6 midshaft braket(bearing housing) looks different than yours Lamouche.
I know its longer, im using the mx-3 midshaft, axles and control arms.

[Psychotuner]

http://www.a1cvtech.com/hist_an.htm

[lamouche98zx2]

heheh another shop here in quebec...

[Psychotuner]

so I got my Pink VSS gear on the diff, and the bearing pressed on, however, my VSS sensor will NOT go into the hole, almost like it needs a smaller gear ? Anyone else have this problem ?

[TTFOWIA]

you need to machine the diff so the gear will fit.

[LiveWire]

I bought one of these diffs brand new. If anyone is interested in it, I will sell it at a small loss.

[TTFOWIA]

why would you sell it?

[Psychotuner]

your not understading, I GOT the pink gear on the Diff, its on and the new beairng is on, actually the trans is back together and ready to go. However the VSS WONT go on its hole, it needs a smaller gear.

[LiveWire]

why would you sell it?

I am looking to go to one of the helical ones instead. It is not available yet, but I am putting off doing anything since I picked up another ZX2. I put the motor out of the one with a blown diff in the one I just picked up.

I can get the ring gear welded at extra cost. I could also do the machine work for the VSS gear, but I never got around to taking my blown diff out so I don't have dimensions.

[Sir William]

your not understading, I GOT the pink gear on the Diff, its on and the new beairng is on, actually the trans is back together and ready to go. However the VSS WONT go on its hole, it needs a smaller gear.


The pink gear will go on if you don't machine it.... however the vss won't go in because the gear sits too high.

You need to either machine the gear it's self or the diff. I'd go with the diff myself cause the gear isn't that strong to begin with and if you make it thinner (top to bottom) it'll only weaken it IMO.

[Psychotuner]

I know what I did wrong, I wanted to save a few bux by shimming down the Punk gear itself and not the Diff. I shaved enough to where it would sit flush so I can put the carrier bearing on. I didnt relized I needed to shave the inside of the gear....

[Psychotuner]

What imma trya nd do is get a smaller Vss gear, I just need someone to count the teeth on the stock green gear on the vss so i know what size gear to order ( I dont have my vss handy )

[mellowness65]

i'd count mine for ya but i'm at home with the flu and all my tools are at school:(

[LiveWire]

What imma trya nd do is get a smaller Vss gear, I just need someone to count the teeth on the stock green gear on the vss so i know what size gear to order ( I dont have my vss handy )

I'm not sure that is gonna make it fit anyway, but it will screw up your speedometer.