Our country......UGH

[zbban1]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080501/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_food

Only a 2 star rating....I wonder why........maybe it's because the American people are basically sick and tired of hearing about our money going to everyone else besides us??? Why can't these other countries learn to farm and raise crops and such as we do? Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he can feed himself for who knows how long. Not quoted exactly, but you get the meaning.

Make me understand WHY we have to be so damned nice to all these other countries in whatever ways we do, yet we are in a recession and have more problems than Bush cares to admit to??? This shit just makes me f*cking crazy!!! What about OUR country? What about the gas prices? The food prices here? Lack of jobs? Health care? Need I go on? Our country is so screwed up right now it's not funny. Bush doesn't want to call it a recession, it's just an economic slowdown. Bullshit. More and more jobs/companies are being sent to other countries, but do those other countries help US out? Hell no. We're the big, bad, US of A and we're a bully country. Always throwing our weight around, invading other countries, showing everyone what a so-called powerful country we are and what we can do if they don't listen to us and obey what we say.

Sure, it's great to have billions upon billions of $$'s to just throw around to help others out, but do it AFTER we've got our own country together. I'd love nothing more than to have Bush bend over and have a gas nozzle shoved up his ass as far as it can reach.....but, then again, being an oil man, he'd probably like it......lol.

Our dollar is basically worthless right now, with nothing getting better anytime soon. How the hell can we afford to send food or $$'s for food when we're in such bad shape ourselves?? I just don't understand it. These people will take the money, do God-knows-what with it, and then what? Will we ever be repaid? Probably not. Look at what Mexico "borrowed" and never even started to repay. Now our jobs are going there. Hmmmmm.....and what do we get in return? The illegals come up here, take jobs from us, and send the money that they make right back down there. Sure they spend some for food and shit, but the majority goes to Mexico.

Another thing that bugs me is the fact that these rich ass celebrities are adopting kids from Africa. What is it with Africa? If they want to adopt kids, there are plenty here, in their own country, to adopt. That's where most of this food money will be going, too.

When will it ever stop? With the number of aliens coming over here, legal AND illegal, one day our country will be so overpopulated it'll burst at the seams. I just hope I'm not alive to see it.........

Sorry, folks, but I just had to get that off my chest. Rant finished......lol.

[capitalcrew]

Politics and religion maybe..

[zbban1]

Maybe so......if it needs to be moved, someone can go ahead and move it. Thanks for pointing it out, cap.

[capitalcrew]

:p

I'd read the post but I've been in so many political arguments today I'm burnt out. haha

[zbban1]

NP Bush just pisses me off, always trying to be a good guy everywhere but in his own country.....lol.

[MrWeeyums]

Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he can feed himself for who knows how long.


Build a man a fire and hell be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and hell be warm for the rest of his life.
~Ryan

[zbban1]

LOL Not exactly what I was getting at, but it'll work.

[zxtwou2]

Only a 2 star rating....I wonder why........maybe it's because the American people are basically sick and tired of hearing about our money going to everyone else besides us???

or that we've heard from just about anybody on TV that bush is so bad...yet they turn a blind eye to the fact the shit really hit the fan when a democrat majority was elected into congress. or that we might have to *gasp* conserve energy and double think buying that Suburban or giant flat screen TV in the giant houses we've financed with ARM mortgages then find ourselves not being able to afford. i'm sure the financial irresponsibility of this country on average isn't a part of any kind of problem we face :winkyface:

Why can't these other countries learn to farm and raise crops and such as we do? Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he can feed himself for who knows how long. Not quoted exactly, but you get the meaning.

or..instead of trying to find a way for people who can't farm the land they are stuck with to farm...find a way to alleviate the problem. most of the people starving in Africa would chose to farm if they had the choice. the small amount of farm land in their countries are usually controlled by the militant forces that run the countries. most of those countries are very volatile and in a state of civil war. food is money, and money is power. how do you control a people in such a country...control their food. and the last time we tried to relieve a country of a militant tyrany, the people we were helping told us to get lost...so we high tailed it after a few Blackhawks went down...if you didn't catch that reference, you need to learn a bit about the areas we are sending the proposed food relief money to.

Make me understand WHY we have to be so damned nice to all these other countries in whatever ways we do, yet we are in a recession and have more problems than Bush cares to admit to??? This shit just makes me f*cking crazy!!! What about OUR country?

you mean the unemployment rate and recession that happened only AFTER the congress became a democrat majority. i'm not against democrats, but there are quite a few of them in congress right now with an agenda to do whatever they can to make Bush look worse.

What about the gas prices? The food prices here? Lack of jobs? Health care? Need I go on? Our country is so screwed up right now it's not funny.

gas prices are due to our dependancy on oil...and our refusal to find alternative fuels, give up SUV's, move closer to work, etc. sure..gas prices are going way up and we are bitching..but big screen TV's are still selling like hotcakes. could it be we are afraid to live within our means and cut back on the luxuries we've come to take for granted? lack of jobs can stem from congress like i mentioned before..and the fact the average American doesn't want to work a dirty job...and gets paid more by the gov't for NOT working than they would at some jobs. so guess who fills that gap? migrant workers and illegal aliens. most of that money goes back across the boarder, instead of being spent at American businesses which would stimulate the economy.

Bush doesn't want to call it a recession, it's just an economic slowdown. Bullshit. More and more jobs/companies are being sent to other countries, but do those other countries help US out? Hell no.

economically speaking..it's not a recession yet. with the outsourcing of jobs to other countries, i agree, we need stronger taxes on imports and tax relief for American employing companies. another big problem though, stems from the American attitude, that our time is worth more than it really is. my brother has no education beyond high school and works an assembly line...yet he isn't happy with 16-18 bucks/hour. this is a PROBLEM. skilled trades and intelecutal work are about the only things thriving in American industry right now, because the joker that puts nuts and bolts on things for a living wants to make twice what his skill is worth overseas..sometimes more.

We're the big, bad, US of A and we're a bully country. Always throwing our weight around, invading other countries, showing everyone what a so-called powerful country we are and what we can do if they don't listen to us and obey what we say.

i agree...this country needs to be more DEFENSIVE instead of OFFENSIVE. but one man alone cannot bring a country down.

Sure, it's great to have billions upon billions of $$'s to just throw around to help others out, but do it AFTER we've got our own country together. I'd love nothing more than to have Bush bend over and have a gas nozzle shoved up his ass as far as it can reach.....but, then again, being an oil man, he'd probably like it......lol.

we don't have billions and billions to throw around, that's the problem. we're spending what we don't have. as for helping our own country...how do you propose that? we're spending TONS of money on illegal aliens...on aid for them! and we have a messed up welfare system. with as much as we're paying out on welfare, why is the unemployment rate still down...guess it needs an overhaul. but then, that's not what 'ol Hillary would say.

Our dollar is basically worthless right now, with nothing getting better anytime soon. How the hell can we afford to send food or $$'s for food when we're in such bad shape ourselves?? I just don't understand it. These people will take the money, do God-knows-what with it, and then what? Will we ever be repaid? Probably not. Look at what Mexico "borrowed" and never even started to repay. Now our jobs are going there. Hmmmmm.....and what do we get in return? The illegals come up here, take jobs from us, and send the money that they make right back down there. Sure they spend some for food and shit, but the majority goes to Mexico.

i agree about our money needing to stay within our boarders more.

Another thing that bugs me is the fact that these rich ass celebrities are adopting kids from Africa. What is it with Africa? If they want to adopt kids, there are plenty here, in their own country, to adopt. That's where most of this food money will be going, too.

not sure why they are adopting internationally. my wife was a nanny for a wealthy couple in Florida for a couple years. they had a kid, and wanted to adopt another...so they adopted from China. i've heard horror stories about the US adoption process..and i don't blame them for going with the route that landed them a kid faster, cheaper, and with statistically less risk of being a problem child..again i stress statistically, not opinion based...i dont' really know where i stand on that.

When will it ever stop? With the number of aliens coming over here, legal AND illegal, one day our country will be so overpopulated it'll burst at the seams. I just hope I'm not alive to see it.........

Sorry, folks, but I just had to get that off my chest. Rant finished......lol.

it'll stop when we get a government that works well together. we need a multi-partison gov't that will not spend all of it's energy and focus on making the other party look bad. we need citizen invovlement. we need personal responsibility. we need to overhaul our way of thinking. lots of change needs to come...but with our arrogance, it's not likely to be easy.

[zbban1]

Your points are good. I hate politics and try not to get too involved in them. I am just basically fed up with hearing about how we help everyone else out when it seems that we are in such a bad way ourselves. This shit just gives me a headache.......

[Buster]

Stop believing the news about us being in a recession. We're not, at least yet. A recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth. That's not the case.

Other than insane gas prices (can't blame President Bush for that as he's TRIED to fix the problem, Congress shot it down several times) and a housing problem that can be blamed on no one other than the people who stupidly took on loans they couldn't afford, we're not doing bad economically as a nation. Unemployment is still under 5 percent.

[RedRacer99]

barack's real name is hussein obama? wow... almost sounds like the two guys we looked for in the war of iraq, lol.. ok ok, back on topic

i agree with zxtwo completely. we are so arrogant, driving fancy cars and having luxuries we simply can't afford. i know damned well i can't be out partying or buy a car i can't afford. when i move out, i don't want cable or a house phone and i'm considering no internet but that prob won't happen with my college classes i still have left. you have to realize what you can and can't do. i figured out with how i stand, i need to pull in over 450 a week to live comfortably (and by that, i mean having a few bucks of padding for emergencies) and i simply can't do that now, so i'm at home for the time being. i'm not proud of it, but i'm not moving out till i know i can support myself. i'm not going to make the same mistakes my dad and brother did and wind up bankrupt. it's common sense.. it makes me sick to see these people rolling around in escalades with rims, talking on their cellphone and they have maybe one kid if any... it's simply bullshit. my saturn ion sedan gets better gas mileage than my zx2 did believe it or not and i'm very happy with it. just be smart people.

and as much as i dislike bush, you can't blame him too much. congress controls the war and money (i think) and its ridiculous what they get away with. gas should NOT be this expensive and its ridiculous why it is. any reasons? don't say because we're running out because we still have quite a lot of reserves left that we just aren't willing to drill into.

with all that said, i'm gonna walk to work today.. never have before but fuck it... i'm walking....

[JonsZX2SR]

Some countries have lousy land and weather. Japan is an example, where the center of the country is mountainous and most of the population lives along the coast.

Other countries have favorable weather and land, but the population is too damn large for the arable land. Bangladesh is an example, and the seasonal monsoons don't help matters.

Other countries just have lousy weather and land. Donated food has allowed the population to grow beyond the land's ability to support the population. Somalia is an example.

Other countries have decent resources, but squabbling between ethnic groups results in less than ideal use of land and labor. Sudan is an example.

Other countries ahve some fertile lands, but population growth in less arable regions has overwhelmed the ability to raise food. Egypt is an example.

Some countries have resources and should be fairly well off but political and social mismanagement or land owned by a few and used for exports results in the country not being able to support it's population. Mexico is an example.

Some countries do a pretty good job of land use, feed their population and export food. however they use a disproportionate amouny of the world's fuel to do so. The US and canada are examples.

Consider that if the beneficiaries just paid for the fuel imports to offset donated food, it would go a long way to reducing the balance of trade problem the US has. What about Saudi Arabia and a few other wealthy oil producing nations helping to feed the world by donating oil earmarked for food exportation.

The world can probably support 9-12 billion people. However that leaves no buffer if things go wrong, due to famines, unfavorable weather, plant disease, etc. Just because the world can supprt that much is no reason to grow the population.

The world would probably be better off with 0.5 to 1.5 billion people. If we don't figure out a humane way to get the population, starvation and disease will probably do the job for us.

[SoCalZX2]

Stop believing the news about us being in a recession. We're not, at least yet. A recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth. That's not the case.

Other than insane gas prices (can't blame President Bush for that as he's TRIED to fix the problem, Congress shot it down several times) and a housing problem that can be blamed on no one other than the people who stupidly took on loans they couldn't afford, we're not doing bad economically as a nation. Unemployment is still under 5 percent.

DING DING DING DING!!!

Problem is no one wants to believe anything other then what the media spoon feeds them. The country is NOT currently in a recession, but I wouldn't be surprised if it goes there... and that wouldn't be the current presidents fault.

It would be whats called a "self fulfilling prophecy". The media and the democratic campaigners have been cramming down our throats for months that the country is in a recession, or the economy is the worst it's been since like Pres. Hoover or whoever... problem is, the economy is now stronger at the end of Bush' tenure then it was at the end of Clinton's... (you could maybe explain that away as the beginning of the dot com bust... but then you have to factor in the housing crunch at the end of Bush' term too)

It's call perception people. Quit blaming Bush for everything and open your damn eyes. Is Bush perfect? HELL NO... but he's not the anti-christ you all seem to think he is either.

[mechtech]

What country is better?

[But I agree that throwing umpteen jillions of dollars away because other people/countries refuse to wise up or are corrupt is nonsense.]

Like AIDS, for example. Let us not EVER mention that the average African has over 100 sexual partners in his lifetime, but lets keep shoveling money to let the dying AIDS people live a bit longer.
NEVER mention the cause.

[RedRacer99]

yeah no shit.. it's their own damned fault they have aids.

we have our own problems we need to fix. but what can we do about it??? how can we stop our OWN government from wasting OUR money on other countries?

[MellowedZX2]

I don't think anyone can speak on what some else can or can't afford unless we know them personally, driving a huge vehicle is their own prerogative, a lot of it has to do with personal preference, I don't NEED a lot of the things I have but because I like them I have them, that doesn't make me a bad person, nor anyone else who has some thing they like. It isn't any of your business to determine what they should have. If you drive a fuel economical car good for you, some others may not care how good of gas mileage they get. WHOOOPIE, who cares? Just because you can't afford some thing doesn't mean you need to impose your lack on others.

Unfortunately most people only know what our BIASED media wants to let you know. Anyone who knows about getting their point across knows they must have knowledge on both sides of the subject. If you base everything you know of what you see on TV then good luck in life, how you make it. Try to become educated in all aspects before you make hasty generalizations.

Now, Our Country, you need to realize that it isn't Our Country that is "UGH" it is the people we have put in place. Do you vote? If not please understand you are doing NOTHING to better the situation, you have your right to your opinion and I respect that but you have no footing for what you say. If you do vote, good job on trying to do your part to help make this a better place.

We help other countries; does it seem that we only help those who have some thing to offer us? Well it would seem that way, but as I mentioned before, if your knowledge comes from our media, try to get other information. Do we have issues as a country that need resolved? Yes, is it all one mans fault? Definitely not. Can one man fix them? Definitely not. It takes all of us to help mold our future, think about that when you are looking at today’s youth.

Joel

[JonsZX2SR]

However, wanting to drive a large fuel inefficient vehicle, expecting cheap fuel and whining when fuel costs are high is the sign of an unrealistic person.

Driving a large vehicle may be a perogative, but providing cheap fuel for that vehicle shouldn't be everyone elses forced perogative.

The Europeans are getting by with $8-9 per gallon fuel while their economy continues along in a healthier state than our own. What makes them smarter or more motivated than many in the US? Europe on the average is less energy rich than the US.

Perhaps some of the reason is they are not wasting a pile of moeny on a stupid war and their currency is not going down the toilet as a result.

[CJW]

What country is better?

[But I agree that throwing umpteen jillions of dollars away because other people/countries refuse to wise up or are corrupt is nonsense.]

Like AIDS, for example. Let us not EVER mention that the average African has over 100 sexual partners in his lifetime, but lets keep shoveling money to let the dying AIDS people live a bit longer.
NEVER mention the cause.

The cause is a man once screwed a monkey(chimp or Mangabey) in the butt. It then spread from there.

I blame the sick bastard that decided to get down with the monkey.

[JonsZX2SR]

More likely the green monkey or related species bit some human and transmitted a mutated form of SIV. The reason for the bite may or may not have to do with any perverse activity.

This has probably happened countless times over the last millenia or so. Most of the time the SIV was harmless, but a few times the mutated form infected the human. Most of the time the infected individual didn't go on to infect enough other humans to cause an epidemic.

Sometime in the 1950's the occurrance of mutated SIV increased and human activity spread the infection... the rest as we know it is history.

* * * * *

How many people are aware there is a genetic mutation in humans that inhibits or pervents HIV infection (delta-32 mutation of the CCR5 gene) ?? If you have one copy of the mutated gene, you can become infected but HIV progresses slowly if at all to AIDS. If you have two it is nearly impossible to become infected.

-> http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_plague/clues.html (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_plague/clues.html)

-> http://www.bioedonline.org/news/news.cfm?art=1635 (http://www.bioedonline.org/news/news.cfm?art=1635)

-> http://www.aegis.com/pubs/aidswkly/2001/AW010906.html (http://www.aegis.com/pubs/aidswkly/2001/AW010906.html)

Apparently resistance to the bubonic plague and later to smallpox selected for individuals resistant to diseases that use the CC5 receptor of white blood cells to ainfect the immune system.

[PHeller]

erp, thanks Jon for the correction.

[CJW]

erp, thanks Jon for the correction.

You really thought my post was serious?

[Buster]

However, wanting to drive a large fuel inefficient vehicle, expecting cheap fuel and whining when fuel costs are high is the sign of an unrealistic person.

Driving a large vehicle may be a perogative, but providing cheap fuel for that vehicle shouldn't be everyone elses forced perogative.

The Europeans are getting by with $8-9 per gallon fuel while their economy continues along in a healthier state than our own. What makes them smarter or more motivated than many in the US? Europe on the average is less energy rich than the US.

Perhaps some of the reason is they are not wasting a pile of moeny on a stupid war and their currency is not going down the toilet as a result.


The Europeans are also getting by with 75% of their income being taken in taxes. That's not a road I want to take.

This "stupid war" and the other "stupid wars" we've fought are what keep you free in the strongest nation in the world. If you had any facts on it, this is not costing much in lives or money when compared to other wasteful budget items like welfare or the cost of NOT securing the border. Yes, the lives lost should be honored and remembered always, but in terms of casualities, this has been one of the most sucessful military operations of all time. We lost more in training exercises and on single days than we have in the last 5 years total.

[MellowedZX2]

However, wanting to drive a large fuel inefficient vehicle, expecting cheap fuel and whining when fuel costs are high is the sign of an unrealistic person.

Driving a large vehicle may be a perogative, but providing cheap fuel for that vehicle shouldn't be everyone elses forced perogative.



The point is you are complaining and giving some one a black eye over some thing that has nothing to do with you. IF they want to drive that type of vehicle it doesn't mater. I expect cheaper gas and complain about spending $40 a tank to fill up a car that gets 30mpg so maybe I am unrealistic too.
I don't think I have ever heard "I drive a gas hog so I want cheap fuel". The only people these prices don't seem to effect are the ones driving Honda Insights, or the Prius. Other then that it still hurts everyone the same to fill up the tank. :winkyface:

Joel

[PHeller]

CJW: I'm sure you don't believe HIV/AIDs started the way you suggested, but I could see some people believing your comment who didn't know better.

Buster: Europe's taxes are higher, but they are also gaining incredibly in the world market, especially the Baltic nations who had done so poor since the fall of Soviet Union. I'm sure many the workers in those nations don't mind the taxes.

Whether the war has been historically successful or not in the number of causalities does not mean that it has proven itself successful in other means. WW2 was a horribly gruesome war, but it helped America not only economically, but also helped to establish America as being the kick-ass country that could join together even with its enemies (China and Russia) to do some serious moral duties. We were the last to step into that game, and when we did we showed the rest how to get things done.

Since WW2 our foreign policy has become increasingly proactive, with more time/money spent on going and try to make the world safer, but it has increasingly made us less and less powerful in world economics.

For every nation that we "liberate", we breed a new competitor who will eventually challenge us, whether technologically, ideologically, etc.

The world is way better off than it was 100 years ago, and America needs to let the world stand on its own two feet. (err, rotate on its own axis?)

Many of the worlds strongest nations aren't fighting these battles, why? They're too busy controlling our dollars.

[JonsZX2SR]

The Europeans are also getting by with 75% of their income being taken in taxes. That's not a road I want to take.

This "stupid war" and the other "stupid wars" we've fought are what keep you free in the strongest nation in the world. If you had any facts on it, this is not costing much in lives or money when compared to other wasteful budget items like welfare or the cost of NOT securing the border. Yes, the lives lost should be honored and remembered always, but in terms of casualities, this has been one of the most sucessful military operations of all time. We lost more in training exercises and on single days than we have in the last 5 years total.

How does wasting resources and the lives of our troops in Iraq makes us free or the strongest nation in the world ?

Maybe if you understood the 'facts' you wouldn't come to stupid conclusions. There was no rational reason to invade Iraq. it doesn't make us any more secure, and the wasted lives and resources plus the drag on the dollar is making the once strongest nation in the world much less strong.

We no longer have the resources to fight a major threat if one arose, because the Bush administration has wasted our military resources. the US needs to stop being the world's policeman, rebuild our military capability, our economy and our currency so thta we can respond to future threats.

Examine the 'fact's and you'll find I'm more correct in my assessment than your unsupportable remarks.

[JonsZX2SR]

You really thought my post was serious?

Absolutely...

The point is you are complaining and giving some one a black eye over some thing that has nothing to do with you. IF they want to drive that type of vehicle it doesn't mater. I expect cheaper gas and complain about spending $40 a tank to fill up a car that gets 30mpg so maybe I am unrealistic too.
I don't think I have ever heard "I drive a gas hog so I want cheap fuel". The only people these prices don't seem to effect are the ones driving Honda Insights, or the Prius. Other then that it still hurts everyone the same to fill up the tank. :winkyface:

Joel

However, it hurts thosw who drive fuel efficient cars proportionately less than those who drive gas hogs.

If some people want to whine about about expensive fuels, I reserve the right to point out their folly.

The Europeans are paying $8-9 per gallon for fuel, up to 75% in taxes AND still their economy is doing better than ours.

That being the case, why are the Europeans smarter about managing their economy better given the circumstances ?? Does anyone here have an explanation other besides pointing out the Bush adminsitration has completely mismanaged the US economy despite our obvious economic strengths.

[PHeller]

International competition between the EU Nations? Since each EU Nation is trying its hardest to stick with the rest, they are developing ways of remaining competitive in things they've always been good at. The whole "fail divided, succeed together" mantra is working in the EU, and I think its vast cultural diversity is benefiting Europe, just as the U.S. has benefited over the last century.

I think one thing drastically that helps Europe is the close knit infrastructure and the native historical attachment to the efficiency that it provides. People aren't nearly as attached to the idea of living in the country as they are in the U.S., they aren't nearly as attached to big cars or big houses or tons of personal space.

Simply put, Europeans are maybe better at living within their means?

[JessicaOfVA]

I just wanted to comment on the lack of jobs comment.... I recently read an article that stated that we are not at a complete lack of jobs. Yes, in some career fields there are more potential employees than there are jobs. But in other career fields, there are more available jobs than potential employees.

[zbban1]

Personally, I could care less if someone drives a big gas hog SUV that they only bought for the status. If they can afford to fill the pig up, then so be it. It comes out of their wallet, not mine. Sure, it's irresponsible if they don't really need something THAT big, but what can I do about that? Nothing.

As far as housing goes, a lot of people live beyond their means. Champagne tastes on a beer budget, I always say. I do think that some of those people USED to have decent jobs and were able to afford the payments of a nice house, but then lost their job and now are in a world of hurt.

[JonsZX2SR]

That's one problem right there. Rather than living within their means, people try to live beyond their means planning to figure out how to deal with problems tomorrow.

But why even try to spend all you money at live at the limit of your means ?? Why not spend wisely, especially in your younger years, live on 60-70% of your means and invest the rest long term.

In 10-20 years, usually before you're 40, you'll have an investment pool that generates an income stream. At this point hopefully your income has grown as well.

So you can try to live at 60-70% of your combined incomes, do better than your neighbors who are all drowning in debt and still invest more in your investment pool.

One thing you can do is buy real estate when prices are low, stocks when they are down and make more money. But it all starts early in life when you have the opportunity to start that pool of deferrred income.

...at some point you'll be secure and ready to retire. Some neighbors and relatives will hate you for choices you made in life. That's their problem.

It all starts with learning the benefits of not merely living within your means but below your means in exchange for future benefits.

[MellowedZX2]

Jon, you are right to a degree, but the point is its their responsibility not your. Let them do their own thing. I mean it is pointless to complain about some thing that really has nothing to do with you, you are still going to have to buy gas no matter what the cost is, let them complain, let them drive them, whatever... you know what I mean?

Joel

[zxtwou2]

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f292/unsonny/july25th/welfare.jpg

[PHeller]

Jon, you are right to a degree, but the point is its their responsibility not your. Let them do their own thing. I mean it is pointless to complain about some thing that really has nothing to do with you, you are still going to have to buy gas no matter what the cost is, let them complain, let them drive them, whatever... you know what I mean?

Joel


We can't do anything about what other people want to drive or how they want to live. The problem in America is that people insist on avoiding the consquences of a given lifestyle. They think "well everyone else does it, so why can't I"? It's that mentality that is working for other countries, and against the United States.

[JonsZX2SR]

...at some point in life each of us has to decide whether we want to run with the herd or set off and explore on our own.

If the herd is living beyond their means and headed for bankruptcy, it doesn't benefit anyone to be part of the herd.

[Rant ON]

I've gotten tired of neighbors, friends, acquaintances, enemies and family all complain about being in poor financial condition and say they didn't do anything different from everyone else. What these people have in common is they haven't learned to think for themselves.

In a few previous posts I asked why Europeans seem to be doing better with their economy, despite paying high fuel prices and high taxes.

I believe the answer, is a much greater percentage of Europeans learn to think for themselves and understand consequences of decisions. This phenomenon includes their leaders. I mention this from experience, since I do work with a lot of European companies and units within my own employers.

A majority of Americans have become too dependent on letting a few people make decisions for them. When someone provides good but tough advice, they reject the tough decisions and follow advice and directions that seem easy but which are unrealistic. The lending crisis in the housing market is an example. People didn't want to save, plan and have mortgages they could actually afford. They wanted big houses cheap with plenty of appreciation. When the increases in payments came due, people couldn't afford to make payments. Those who originated the loans were no where to be found.

Other examples are the effect of a protracted and expensive Iraq war on our economy and on the morale and health of our troops and their families. The war is expensive and hasn't accomplished very much. We replaced an incompetent dictator with sectarian fighting and created a haven for terrorists. We strengthened Iran's hand. We got a lot of Americans killed. For what, I ask ?? It hasn't made us any more secure.

There are clueless people who think America is still the superpower it was 10 years ago. The time has come to wake up. Militarily and economically America has been living beyond their means. People who are part of the herd have been listening to those who propose the easy solutions.

Our economy is weak, the dollar is devalued and our military is stretched thin. If China wanted to invade Taiwan tomorrow and decided to partner with Iran, Russia, N. Korea and Venezuela to shut of oil and start trouble in various parts of the world we'd be in big trouble.

We don't have the military means right now (because we squandered it in Iraq) to deal with multiple crises, we would have to cut back on oil consumption and perhaps divert holding to the military and the economy would take a hit.

Imagine telling someone who wants easy answers, they cannot drive this month because the military needs the fuel.

[Rant OFF]

Americans need to get away from the herd mentality and learn to think for themselves. Fortunately for the US (and unfortunately for lazy Americans) there are plenty of legal immigrants who can do this... Those are the one's who will make the US great in the next few generations.

[Buster]

How does wasting resources and the lives of our troops in Iraq makes us free or the strongest nation in the world ?

Maybe if you understood the 'facts' you wouldn't come to stupid conclusions. There was no rational reason to invade Iraq. it doesn't make us any more secure, and the wasted lives and resources plus the drag on the dollar is making the once strongest nation in the world much less strong.

We no longer have the resources to fight a major threat if one arose, because the Bush administration has wasted our military resources. the US needs to stop being the world's policeman, rebuild our military capability, our economy and our currency so thta we can respond to future threats.

Examine the 'fact's and you'll find I'm more correct in my assessment than your unsupportable remarks.


Sounds like you were living in a cave for the last 20 years. :rofl:

[PHeller]

Sounds like you were living in a cave for the last 20 years. :rofl:

Why? Because he's right?

Aren't you the one telling us that being in Iraq is neccesary?

[ZetecInside]

Why? Because he's right?

Relax - Buster only knows what he hears on Hannity and Colmes.

[JonsZX2SR]

Relax - Buster only knows what he hears on Hannity and Colmes.

Relax, I can handle Buster. He's challenged enough just putting together two consecutive sentences that make a rational argument. When his childish put downs fail, he doesn't know how to respond in a logical fashion...

Sounds like you were living in a cave for the last 20 years. :rofl:

Interesting that you accuse me of living in a cave, when it is you who are clearly living in the past. Where have you been the past 5-6 years ?? In a cave ??

The US has wasted resources and capabilities in Iraq that cannot be replaced in the short term if we need them. We do not have infinite resources that can be replaced on a moments notice. The most critical resource is the lives of our soldiers.

If China decided to start something over Taiwan today we couldn't respond. Worse if Iran and Russia tried to start trouble in the middle east at the same time and Venezuela decided to cut off oil.

Our over-extended military doesn't have current capabilities to respond, having been depleted by the extended war in Iraq.

You sound just like the ignorant fools who got us into this mess... Do you really believe the US military has current capabilities to respond to another emergency and the US economy has the strength to support continued military activities ??

Surely you can't be that ignorant..??

[MellowedZX2]

We can't do anything about what other people want to drive or how they want to live. The problem in America is that people insist on avoiding the consquences of a given lifestyle. They think "well everyone else does it, so why can't I"? It's that mentality that is working for other countries, and against the United States.

OK, but is that the problem YOU have also or have you recognized this and made the change in your life. Only talking about the problem does nothing more then cause it to flare, however talking about the problem and how you overcame it will do more to help others then just pointing the finger and saying well look at you, your the problem, this place sucks because of it.

Jon-

Our military can deploy to an emergency regardless of being here or there. Have we lost many lives, yes. But that is what they/I signed up for. The military is a volunteer based system. I enlisted in the Marine Corps in peace time, and I have been to OIF I and II, did I want to go? No, but only because I didn't want to leave my family. Being in the military and complaining about going to war is like being a fireman and complaining about putting out a fire; its your freaking job.

We can some what compare this to fighting gang wars on our streets, have we lost policemen? Yes, so does this mean we should stop trying to prevent it, and when it happens have some thing to respond with. It isn't the same but it does relate.

Do I believe we STILL need to be in Iraq? I don't know, however I do know that we will to some extent always have some sort of U.S. military element in Iraq.

Yes I do believe we are the best country in the world. Like I have said though, we do have our flaws, and that is why we need to mold our future. We are looking at a dismal future because we are neglecting the family. In this country people have the chance. You know what I mean. In what other country could Oprah have the success that she does?

Much Love,
Joel

[PHeller]

My goal is to be part of the solution. As a regional planner or environmental impact planner, I hope to direct either private or public sector developers to think about ways to better utilizing resources, whether they be labor or fuel. I hope to gain the education and experience to use a free thinking progressive approached to help developers plan communities around effiecieny, not just around "The Old American Dream".

Its difficult for me to to say "oh well I did this and you can too" because I still live at home. Do I want to? No! But I also plan to move someplace closer to work and school to save both money and natural resources. I hope to be able to ride bicycle to school, or even do the same for work. I've often debated selling my ZX2 for a Geo Metro!

I ride my bike whenever I can (it pisses of my girlfriend), don't like to drive needlessly, try to convince others to buy more efficient vehicles, and have been cutting back on my personal energy and water consumption.

The way we spread this message is by better developing our talking points or own strategies, that way when someone is interested we can give them good answers about the topics that will help us into the future.

Mellow: I value and commend your service in our military, but I do not wish for you, or anyone else in the Armned Forces to die for me in Iraq. By serving our country, you serve me, my President, my neighbor, and yourself. Judging by current polls, most American don't agree with the services their government is supposedly providing, security included.

If I could give the orders, if I was allowed to control where my tax dollars went, I would have wanted my cousin (USMC 18yrs), to learn Arabic and Farsi and become a spy. He would have likely been safer and protecting our country more than he did training Iraqi's on border patrol or how to clear houses. He was serving Iraqi's, but taking order from U.S.

[JonsZX2SR]

Jon-

Our military can deploy to an emergency regardless of being here or there. Have we lost many lives, yes. But that is what they/I signed up for. The military is a volunteer based system. I enlisted in the Marine Corps in peace time, and I have been to OIF I and II, did I want to go? No, but only because I didn't want to leave my family. Being in the military and complaining about going to war is like being a fireman and complaining about putting out a fire; its your freaking job.

...Joel The issue isn't whether we can deploy our military or that some will lose their lives.

The issue is whether we can support the military in a way they stand a good chance of completing their missions and winning while losing the least lives possible. I don't believe that is possible given the circumstances.

a) We had a problem getting the military proper vehicles, armor and equipment, to just cite two instances, in Iraq to get the job done. Things haven't gotten any better. It is wrong to put soldiers lives at risk then deny them the equipment they need.

b) the military is counting more and more on the reserves who are serving repeated assignments overseas. In some cases, people "with critical skills" are being kept in the military because there are no replacements. A significant portion of are military and their families are tired and depressed.

At the same time the cost of the war is increasing a negative balance of trade, dragging down our economy.

We may be able to win a naval war or an air war. We may be able to nuke another nation into oblivion, with the expected disapproval from our allies. What is becoming clear is that we are losing the ability to fight any kind of ground war as our troops become tired and depleted. If another hot spot pops up closer to our borders or those of our allies we might be in the situation where we pull out of iraq or admit defeat.

There is no end in sight in Iraq. Why are we wasting US lives on these barbarians ??? I don't think we should be concerned about their freedom or security, given the way they behave.

[aaronrun]

DING DING DING DING!!!

Problem is no one wants to believe anything other then what the media spoon feeds them. The country is NOT currently in a recession, but I wouldn't be surprised if it goes there... and that wouldn't be the current presidents fault.

It would be whats called a "self fulfilling prophecy". The media and the democratic campaigners have been cramming down our throats for months that the country is in a recession, or the economy is the worst it's been since like Pres. Hoover or whoever... problem is, the economy is now stronger at the end of Bush' tenure then it was at the end of Clinton's... (you could maybe explain that away as the beginning of the dot com bust... but then you have to factor in the housing crunch at the end of Bush' term too)

It's call perception people. Quit blaming Bush for everything and open your damn eyes. Is Bush perfect? HELL NO... but he's not the anti-christ you all seem to think he is either.
+1. Personally I think our country is just a bunch of faggy whiners. We bitch and moan about how much our economy sucks and "boo hoo gas is four dollars a gallon". If these jackasses knew how fuckin sweet we actually have it.... It just comes down to ignorance. Recession? How have you criers been directly affected and to what extent. Will you still be able to afford food this week? If you can't afford a relatively amazing life in America then just STFU and GTFO

[AZN_ZX2]

Uh too much to read so far but I'm all for it. It all comes down to helping other people. When you walk by a homeless person in the street give them a sammich or something. In other places everyone is poor. Stop bitching and be a bit thankful.

We've been spoiled with gas prices forever. Its a wake up call if anything.

We can't help much with other countries as individuals but we can help people here. Instead of complaining about how no one helps people here do it yourself. Volunteer at a soup kitchen, donate clothes or food etc. I'm not saying you don't do your share, but there are plenty of people who don't

Oh the company I work for (Whole Foods) has a program called Whole Planet that donates money to poor countries and their local businesses to help them work for themselves. For example they lend a woman $100 for a sewing machine. The woman starts sewing for a living and selling items she sews. Then she slowly pays back the money. Then this same money that she pays back goes to someone else. The concept is to use a set amount of money to eliminate poverty at its source. I personally think its a great idea. It has its flaws I'm sure but after a 13hour shift its a bit hard to think lol

[Buster]

You are right about being "spoiled" by gas prices.

We've always enjoyed prices lower than most of the world. When ours was $2.00, England and other European nations had $8.00+/gallon (converted from liters) prices.

Sure, we're paying too much in gas taxes and that does need corrected before we go after oil companies and make things worse, but I usually don't complain about gas because it could always be MUCH worse.

As long as we start using our own oil and stop putting more socialistic restrictions on customers and oil companies, we'll be fine.

[AZN_ZX2]

You are right about being "spoiled" by gas prices.

We've always enjoyed prices lower than most of the world. When ours was $2.00, England and other European nations had $8.00+/gallon (converted from liters) prices.

Sure, we're paying too much in gas taxes and that does need corrected before we go after oil companies and make things worse, but I usually don't complain about gas because it could always be MUCH worse.

As long as we start using our own oil and stop putting more socialistic restrictions on customers and oil companies, we'll be fine.

x2 well said.

[Buster]

Yeah, I'm not saying our oil situation is great...there is a LOT wrong with it, mainly due to environmentalists and people in government as well as simple supply and demand since China and India recently began taking a lot of the world's supply...but we are lucky compared to most of the world price-wise.

[JonsZX2SR]

As long as we start using our own oil and stop putting more socialistic restrictions on customers and oil companies, we'll be fine.

Simple solutions from simple minds. How much do you actually know about oil reserves in the US vs. the rest of the world ?? Do you understand why the US buys foreign oil ??

1. Supply and demand causes the least expensive oil to be produced first. As the least expensive supplies are exhausted, more expensive fields are produced, driving the cost of production up. This plus the devaluation of the dollar is what has been driving oil prices up. (The fact that China is willing to pay so much for oil is also driving prices up. China is using a huge trade imbalance with the Us to pay for oil. In exchange the cost to the US consumer is rising.)

2. Much of US reserves contain more heavy fractions or tars. We don't have enough premium crude to feed the refineries. This results in lower yield of distillate, driving the price of refined fuel up. Better quality foreign crude is preferred.

The US has only about 12 years of reserves. as shown in the table below. If we shift to consuming all our oil now we will become totally dependent on imports in 20-30 years unless we develop synthetic fuel from coal or alternate fuel soiurces.

Who came up with the idea we should just shift to consuming out own oil ?? That isn't a particularly well thought out suggestion.

http://www.teamzx2.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=557&stc=1&d=1210717644

[aprophetofone]

remember the black plague? probably not, but two thirds of Europe's population was DEAD. and the only real reason it stopped was because there were no more living people for the virus to live off of. its the same thing thats trying to happen with aids. i say let natural selection happen and let the weak ones die out, and theres your population control.

thats my two cents..

[MellowedZX2]

Man, now that is heart felt right there, survival of the fittest. Word!

Joel

[JonsZX2SR]

remember the black plague? probably not, but two thirds of Europe's population was DEAD. and the only real reason it stopped was because there were no more living people for the virus to live off of. its the same thing thats trying to happen with aids. i say let natural selection happen and let the weak ones die out, and theres your population control.

You contradicted yourself... If according to your counting 2/3 died, then 1/3 of the population would be left to face the infection. Given that Europes population was about 75 million in the mid 1300's that would leave 25 million to face the ravages of the disease.

->Bubonic plague (http://www.themiddleages.net/plague.html)

In reality about 1/3 died at the height of the plague (1348-1353) and less than half the population died overall. The disease flared up repeatedly over the next few centuries.

The disease stopped because the population traveled less, cities were less dense and had better sanitaion and people stopped killing rats who carry fleas that transmit disease. the disease didn't stop because there was no one to be infected, there was still more than half the population of Europe.

Some survivors had a natural resistance due to a genetic mutation. About 10% of the population of eastern Europe today and less eslsewhere carries a genetic mutation (delta32 mutation of the CCR5 gene)that makes them resistant or immune to the Bubonic Plague.

Secrets of the Dead - Bubonic Plague (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/lessons/lp_plague.html)

Ironically, this mutation provides resistance to HIV. If you have one copy, you can contract HIV but the disease progresses slowly to AIDS. If you have two copies it is almost impossible to contract HIV.

Secrets of the Dead-Descendants-of-plague (http://thoughtsontheroad.blogspot.com/2005/11/secrets-of-dead-descendants-of-plague.html)

So you advocate letting nature run it's course..?? A better approach would be to educate people, change behaviors to reduce risks and avoid transmission of disease.

[RedRacer99]

well said, jon, well said. education... where the fuck would anyone be without it? it pisses me off to hear kids and adults alike at my college complain how much they hate school.

[Buster]

Simple solutions from simple minds. How much do you actually know about oil reserves in the US vs. the rest of the world ?? Do you understand why the US buys foreign oil ??

1. Supply and demand causes the least expensive oil to be produced first. As the least expensive supplies are exhausted, more expensive fields are produced, driving the cost of production up. This plus the devaluation of the dollar is what has been driving oil prices up. (The fact that China is willing to pay so much for oil is also driving prices up. China is using a huge trade imbalance with the Us to pay for oil. In exchange the cost to the US consumer is rising.)

2. Much of US reserves contain more heavy fractions or tars. We don't have enough premium crude to feed the refineries. This results in lower yield of distillate, driving the price of refined fuel up. Better quality foreign crude is preferred.

The US has only about 12 years of reserves. as shown in the table below. If we shift to consuming all our oil now we will become totally dependent on imports in 20-30 years unless we develop synthetic fuel from coal or alternate fuel soiurces.

Who came up with the idea we should just shift to consuming out own oil ?? That isn't a particularly well thought out suggestion.

http://www.teamzx2.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=557&stc=1&d=1210717644


Greetings, simple mind.

I wasn't speaking of reserves, which are to be kept for emergencies where we can't get oil imported into our nation due to war, natural disaster or other reasons.

We have oil in many regions: ANWR, coasts of FL and CA, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, South Dakota and a few others that is completely untapped and will last MUCH longer than you claimed.

However, government and environmental restrictions by selfish politicians looking to please their own special interests are stopping us.

Deny all you want, it is true.


So, why don't you explain to us why you are so opposed to using our own resources while we find an alternative? Why do you want to keep us dependent on foreign countries and a corrupt OPEC that do not have our own interests in mind?

If we had began drilling ANWR when first proposed in the Clinton administration, we'd be using that oil and gas right now, at a much lower price than we're currently paying.

In an attempt to look educated, you forgot to apply common sense.

[JonsZX2SR]

Greetings, simple mind.

Speak for yourself. It is obvious from your response that you have absolutely no technical understanding of petroelum an fuel production.

I wasn't speaking of reserves, which are to be kept for emergencies where we can't get oil imported into our nation due to war, natural disaster or other reasons.

We have oil in many regions: ANWR, coasts of FL and CA, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, South Dakota and a few others that is completely untapped and will last MUCH longer than you claimed.

However, government and environmental restrictions by selfish politicians looking to please their own special interests are stopping us.

Deny all you want, it is true.

So, why don't you explain to us why you are so opposed to using our own resources while we find an alternative? Why do you want to keep us dependent on foreign countries and a corrupt OPEC that do not have our own interests in mind?

If we had began drilling ANWR when first proposed in the Clinton administration, we'd be using that oil and gas right now, at a much lower price than we're currently paying.

In an attempt to look educated, you forgot to apply common sense.

I'm not denying that we have plenty of reserves. It is the quality of the reserves that constitutes the problem. Many of them (Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, Dakotas, others) that constain substantial amount of tars. This means you get substaially less light distillates from them, meaning the price of fuel is proportionally higher.

The US and Canada have a lot of oil which is high in tar content. Research has been done to try cracking and hydrogenating these fractions. The process is neither cheap nor easy. Having much oil does us no good if it is not of the right quality.

I'm surprised you haven't done the research to understand this. I've worked on cracking petroleum, tar and coal. What are your technical qualifications ??

Only an uneducated person would suggest these can be directly substituted for light pertroleum. I suggest you shut you uneducated mouth before you confirm what the rest of us suspect.

Other oil is more expensive to produce, such as deep offshore reserves.

Total reserves certainly have value, but they are only going to last 20-30 years if we relty on them. At that point we become totaly dependent on imported oil, unless we start making fuel from coal.

You claim our useable reserves woulod last more than 30 years if we were toatlly reliant on them. This conflicts with everything I've read from experts in the field. Where did you get you numbers or did you make them up to be argumentative ??

Your comment about a "corrupt OPEC" not having our interests in mind shows how incredibly uniformed you are. OPEC exists solely to support the interests of the oil producing nations. Of course, they don't support our interests, they just want to sell oil to whoever will pay for it. You have to be completely out of touch with reality to think OPEC has our best interests in mind, then call them corrupt.

Shifting entirely wouldn't make a difference in the price of crude oil ?? Even if you ignored all of the above and relied solely on US production, why should the producers of the oil sell below prices of the world market ?? You could pass a law trying to force them to produce and sell below the global market price, but that sounds an awful lot like socialism or communism. Are you implying you're a socialist/communist ?? The next thing you'll suggest is the US nationalize all the oils fields and produce below market prices.

To be blunt about it, you don't know WTF you are talking about. Anyone who has followed your posts understands this is a common theme with you.

I agree there is a problem with politicians and with the conspiracy theorists who have no idea what they are talking about. A greater problem lies with the gullible, uninformed public who believe everything they hear without taking time to understand the technical and economic information.

I agree that common sense is important but it is useless without working knowledge about the problem you are trying to solve.

Sounds like you are part of the uniformed public who have neither working knowledge nor common sense. A simple mind, indeed...

[JonsZX2SR]

If anyone is interested they can learn about different types of crude oil,


http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/ask/crude_types1.html

http://www.lloydminsterheavyoil.com/crudetypes.htm

http://www.shipfinance.dk/Shipping-Research/Tanker-Ships/Crude-Tankers/Crude-Oil-Types.aspx

If you want to understand the difficulties of refining heavy, sour crude vs. light, sweet crude read the following article...

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article645.html

The problem with the US oil reserves is much of our oil doesn't come close to being West Texas Light. Much of the oil discussed above (Colorado, Utah, etc.) is heavy tarry oil.

http://www.epa.gov/OEM/content/learning/crude.htm

You can't just pipe this stuff into refineries, the portion of distillable lights is less than even the Venezuelan oil. The non-volatile portion become pitch and bitumen which will clog the refineries unless removed.

I said once before simple solutions just don't work because they overlook fundamentals. Once you include all the factors such as the yield from the crude, rather than overlooking them, US reserves would barely meet current demands for 20-30 years and certainly not last a lot longer, as claimed by the uninformed non-experts.

[zxtwou2]

You are right about being "spoiled" by gas prices.

We've always enjoyed prices lower than most of the world. When ours was $2.00, England and other European nations had $8.00+/gallon (converted from liters) prices.

Sure, we're paying too much in gas taxes and that does need corrected before we go after oil companies and make things worse, but I usually don't complain about gas because it could always be MUCH worse.

As long as we start using our own oil and stop putting more socialistic restrictions on customers and oil companies, we'll be fine.

why are we paying too much tax on gas? i'd rather have very high taxes on gasoline, and lower taxes on income. this way, people will be rewarded for making good choices on conserving fuel, and the luxury of owning an SUV, or living far from work, etc will be taxed.

[MellowedZX2]

why are we paying too much tax on gas? i'd rather have very high taxes on gasoline, and lower taxes on income. this way, people will be rewarded for making good choices on conserving fuel, and the luxury of owning an SUV, or living far from work, etc will be taxed.

Come on seriously? You really think that people should be rewarded for driving more fuel efficient cars? What is the point in trying to punish some one for wanting to have an SUV, or living a distance from work. Some people don't have a choice in either situation, some people need a larger vehicle for their family, does this mean we need to restrict family size as well, you know since more people ultimalty require more fuel. How about those who can't afford to live close to the job, I mean come on. I am not saying yes or no to either taxes on gas/income right now because I am not to informed about it. But your statement about rewarding those who conserve fuel, and the luxury of owning an SUV. It is a luxury and if people can afford it then so be it. The price they pay for gas is the same as you. You know it isn't just big suv that are using up our fuel, its the less fortunate people who don't have SUV's but their sedans or coupes just aren't new enough and weren't taken car of and get crap for gas too. It does happen. Its not your choice on what others drive, so therefore it isn't your place to punish/reward them either.

Call me uneducated what ever, this isn't about education its about people either being bitter about some thing they can' afford and wanting to hurt those who can, or just wanting to impose some thing on some one for no reason.

Joel

[powder]

Got this in an email today. I'd imagine there's some truth to it but i'm not stating it as fact.

THIS MUST BE PASSED ALONG TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OR WE WILL ALL GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE A FEW DON'T CARE.

This English teacher has phrased it the best I've seen yet.

Tomatoes and Cheap Labor

CHEAP TOMATOES?




This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent

>From a California school teacher - - -

"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school that is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socio-economic and income levels.

Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens , Huntington on Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America . (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them putas" (whores) and throwing things that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.



Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools,overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it. Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnantand dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about"politically correctness" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.

If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.

CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.

Consumers don't want expensive produce.

Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.

But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth , a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.



He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent. He qualifies for food stamps.

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.

His children get free breakfasts and lunches

at school He requires bilingual teachers and books.

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled , they quali fy for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare . All of this is at(our) taxpayer's expense.

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.

The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.

Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people!

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'

THIS HAS GOT TO BE PASSED ALONG TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OR WE WILL ALL GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE A FEW DON'T CARE.

[mechtech]

I saw where the Arab oil producing countries only put in $50,000 for the World Relief Fund.
That amounts to 1 and 1/2 seconds of a whole year's oil production.
Demonic hypocrites.

[zxtwou2]

Come on seriously? You really think that people should be rewarded for driving more fuel efficient cars? What is the point in trying to punish some one for wanting to have an SUV, or living a distance from work.

so you agree with having higher income taxes, and lower fuel taxes? how should intelligence, ability, skill, etc of having a high paying job be punished while bad choices of energy consumption go rewarded? that's backwards thinking. choices you can make in your life that affect how much money you'll need to spend: having children...you can save a lot on gas by buying a smaller car if you chose not to have them. driving a sensible automobile...i'm sure driving that H2 in the city traffic during rush hour justifies the 8mpg you are getting. living closer to work...sure living out in the country or suburbs is nice, but urban sprawl is a huge problem alongside the daily commute people are willing to go through for their personal space, so that personal space should come at a cost as a luxury in the means of a few bucks more in gas tax.

by the way, you think taxing fuel as a luxury is bad? but doing so would put more money into our government and allow for smaller income/sales/property taxes. also, we'd be discouraging sending all of our money to the middle east...who isn't exactly on our good side right now. sure...give the cost of fuel a break...so we can keep driving huge cars and sending all our money to the middle east. what about rewarding people who make choices that encourage keeping American dollars out of the middle east...SUV's don't exactly do that.

Its not your choice on what others drive, so therefore it isn't your place to punish/reward them either.

true....but why not reward conservation of energy and good choices instead of giving people a break on what has become a LUXURY. sure, we all need fuel to get to work, school, farm, whatever...but using more to drive a bigger car, not carpooling, driving 50 miles to work isn't exactly NEEDED. it's a choice that can easily be made to be more economical..therefore, people who do not feel the need to help our economy and environment need to pay for the luxury of being so wasteful.

Call me uneducated what ever, this isn't about education its about people either being bitter about some thing they can' afford and wanting to hurt those who can, or just wanting to impose some thing on some one for no reason.

Joel

take some time to see where your dollars go right now buying so much foreign fuel...and tell me why this isn't about economics...or as you said, education, which you need to understand economics. i'm not bitter...i'm supportive of conservation of energy to keep less dollars flowing to the middle east, and allow alternative DOMESTIC fuel sources to become more cost effective in comparisson to petroleum. trust me, i can afford to drive a huge hulking SUV to work, but i'd rather not waste. waste is a luxury beyond the point at which you do not need to create waste...THAT is what needs to be taxed.

[JonsZX2SR]

It really isn't a matter of consciously punishing or rewarding people any more. Economics is already providing incentives whether anyone likes it or not.

The combination of the US sending a large amount of money to middle eastern oil producers, spending billions on Iraq and sending a huge pile of money to China (who then use it to buy oil and drive up the price.) The combination of effects is devaluing the dollar, making oil, and therefore fuel made from oil, more expensive.

US asks China to help stabilize oil prices (http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/20/news/china_us_oil.ap/index.htm?postversion=2008052007).

(If we have to ask China for economic help perhaps we aren't the superpower we once were. Time to stop deluding ourselves and get back on track to having a stable and growing economy.)

Freedom of choice allows people to make good choices or bad choices. If someone chooses to drive an inefficient vehicle given the current economic climate, they will have to face consequences of their actions.

Whining about the cost of gasoline or blaming the rising cost of oil on a conspiracy is just a symptom of someone who tends to make less informed decisions. As a nation we succeed or fail as the sum of all our actions. If a significant number of people make poor choices (poor use of credit cards and mortgages they can't afford are other examples) we ALL suffer the consequences.

The problem today is many people blame others for their bad choices. As far as I'm concerned someone can drive that big SUV that gets 13 mpg. I'm not going to feel ant sympathy when they whine about the cost of filling it up.

Who is to Blame for $4 Fuel ?? (http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/20/news/economy/gas_price_history/index.htm?postversion=2008052010)

Europeans pay the equivalent of $8-9 per gallon and pay higher taxes than we do. Why is the European economy doing better than the US economy. It can't be that a majority of Europeans make better choices than American counterparts ??