Has anyone expermented with HHO?

[Shadowen925]

I have a good friend that builds HHO or "brown's Gas" cells for cars to give them better gas mileage. For those of you that are unfamiliar with HHO cells, The simple version is that they use power from the battery to break down water into HHO and then send the HHO gas into the engine, via the air. a car can be run entirely of HHO if you can find a way to tween off the gas. The most common way of doing this is by tricking the air sensor so that it wont send as much gas to the engine and thus using less gas and more of the created HHO.
I want to try to figure out if it is possible to use this HHO as something similar to a nos shot. but as HHO burns cooler then gas I think it would be possible to run it for longer then just a shot.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1169558/geet_plasma_fuel_hho_pantone_alfven_wave_free_ener gy/
http://youcandriveonwater.com/

I look forward to hearing your thoughts and suggestions.

[Shadowen925]

Anyone, Thoughts?

[mellowness65]

it's a pretty violent reaction if done right, not sure I'd do it, how do you plan on keeping the batteries charged?

[Twiggy2cents]

im going to guess the alternator

[david gettle]

I have a device that seperates water into Hydrogen and Oxygen, vents the oxygen to the atmosphere and sends the hydrogen into the air intake. I found out about it because FOX News did a report on it, and said in the tests they did on police vehicles that some showed an increase in MPG but all showed an increase in HP. It runs off the altinator and is called a HydranOX5000; go here for my MPG results:
http://www.teamzx2.com/showthread.php?t=199

[mellowness65]

yeah but from doing this in chem class having enough power for appreciable gas production seems like it would take more current than the standard battery could produce

[david gettle]

At low current the gas produced is a small amount and takes longer to produce, but it doesn't take much hydrogen to show a recordable improvement in fuel economy over time. Part of the key to this is that there needs to be an electrolite (conductive material ie. salt) desolved in the water to aid in producing a current flow through the water wich causes the chemical separation of the hydrogen and oxygen. The longer your daily drive time is the more improvement there will be, my average drive time each way to work is 30 min. a 45 min to 1 hour commute would show better results.

[Shadowen925]

At low current the gas produced is a small amount and takes longer to produce, but it doesn't take much hydrogen to show a recordable improvement in fuel economy over time. Part of the key to this is that there needs to be an electrolite (conductive material ie. salt) desolved in the water to aid in producing a current flow through the water wich causes the chemical separation of the hydrogen and oxygen. The longer your daily drive time is the more improvement there will be, my average drive time each way to work is 30 min. a 45 min to 1 hour commute would show better results.

Actually it isn't salt. Salt would would create a toxic gas I think. I'm going to be using baking soda I think. And the actual cell uses very little power. and only draws power to make the gas while the car is on. This way it doesn't store up the HHO and create a "bomb".

[Shadowen925]

BUMMMPY:wacko:

[Shadowen925]

More thoughts
Bump

[2000ZxT]

I don't know about this thread, but based on your avatar, the amount of $$ you spent on those energy drinks you could have bought a turbo. Fail!

Caffeine pills FTW.

[CJW]

My dad built a rather large hyrdogen separator after building a small scale one. His big one pumps it out like it's going out of style. He wants to put it in his v6 dakota.

[Shadowen925]

My dad built a rather large hyrdogen separator after building a small scale one. His big one pumps it out like it's going out of style. He wants to put it in his v6 dakota.

Cool. Would you let me know how that works out. Like does he experience any power gain or just better MPG.

[Shadowen925]

I don't know about this thread, but based on your avatar, the amount of $$ you spent on those energy drinks you could have bought a turbo. Fail!

Caffeine pills FTW.

Haha. Not to mention the three $350+ computer video cards, the $400 CPU, and the $250 motherboard boxes below them.

Oh and my
$80 Tuniq Tower cooler. That is all that is pictured. I have a lot more money in my computer that is not pictured

[LiveWire]

Yeah, let us know how well your perpetual motion machine works. Mechanical energy from the engine is converted to electrical energy with some percentage of loss as heat and sound energy. I don't know the loss, but I bet it is at least half. Then that electrical energy is converted to chemical energy as hydrogen and oxygen with what I have read is 30% efficiency at best. The hydrogen is then burned in your engine to produce mechanical energy with another 30% efficiency. If you are keeping track of these numbers, we are now at 5% at best mechanical energy produced for what it took to turn the alternator. :bangnana:

If there are gains, more likely, the hydrogen burns to produce water along with the fact the the bubbles in the container saturate the mostly air above the water. So you basically end up with a very elaborate low volume water injection system.

An easier setup would be a radiator overflow bottle that you flow a vacuum line through such as the PCV. You run the air into the bottle at the bottom and the air out to the manifold. With the bottle about half full of water. The air will bubble through the water and saturate the air. The water vapor expands to steam in your engine giving you a power boost.

The alternator efficiency may not be even across power draw. Meaning there is some drag that occurs all the time so it's overall efficiency goes up with draw. You're still using power that could power other things. If you don't need the full power, then an under drive would net you a better gain because you are reducing the power draw in the first place rather than trying to convert it back.

[Sir William]

It's already been done to an escort!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rb_rDkwGnU

It's not an unsafe process either!!!

This guy has set it up as a hybrid vehicle....

He uses the gas to start the process and the separation and running of everything else is controlled by JUST the alternator. He does not have to use battery's in conjunction with the alternator.

The reason the gas is used is to start the whole process in motion. Once the vehicle is started and the HHO is produced it's switched over.

[Shadowen925]

Last yesterday I finally installed an HHO cell in my car.
My friend makes and sells these units. He lives about 25 miles from where I live so I decided to do a test of MPG before the cell to MPG after it is installed.
When I left I filled up at a gas station in town and reset my odm. I drove there on a country road with the cruise set at 60mph. When I got to his town I filled up at the gas station and wrote down my odm before I went to his house to install the unit. There is only three stop signs between the two gas stations so it is a fairly steady drive. I made sure to shift at the same rpm every time. After the installation I did the same thing on the way back home.
When I got home I calculated my MPG. (my car measures in Kilometers so I converted it.)

On the trip there I traveled 23.05 miles (37.1 Km). It took .878 Gallons to fill my tank to full. That comes out to 26.25 MPG

On the return trip I traveled 22.93 miles (36.9 Km). It took .387 Gallons to fill my tank to full after that. That comes out to 59.25 MPG

I plan on running some more tests to see exactly how accurate these are. Also I will try to post pics of the cell and how it is installed.

Thoughts? Comments?

[corby_baby]

Last yesterday I finally installed an HHO cell in my car.
My friend makes and sells these units. He lives about 25 miles from where I live so I decided to do a test of MPG before the cell to MPG after it is installed.
When I left I filled up at a gas station in town and reset my odm. I drove there on a country road with the cruise set at 60mph. When I got to his town I filled up at the gas station and wrote down my odm before I went to his house to install the unit. There is only three stop signs between the two gas stations so it is a fairly steady drive. I made sure to shift at the same rpm every time. After the installation I did the same thing on the way back home.
When I got home I calculated my MPG. (my car measures in Kilometers so I converted it.)

On the trip there I traveled 23.05 miles (37.1 Km). It took .878 Gallons to fill my tank to full. That comes out to 26.25 MPG

On the return trip I traveled 22.93 miles (36.9 Km). It took .387 Gallons to fill my tank to full after that. That comes out to 59.25 MPG

I plan on running some more tests to see exactly how accurate these are. Also I will try to post pics of the cell and how it is installed.

Thoughts? Comments?

please post good pics, i would love to see this on a zx2. videos would be terrific too.

[Apex]

That's a good start, but to get concrete results, you should do this back and forth trip several times with the HHO system enabled and disabled. There are many variables that can skew the results such as wind direction, road slope, traffic, time of day (which would affect the amount of gasoline the tank can hold as well as the temperature of the intake charge). That does seem like an optimsitic result, but I would love to see more data that you gather.

[Shadowen925]

I plan on it.
I'll keep you guys updated.

[Shadowen925]

Pictures and clips of the cell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0nHVKkhhqU

[Gregersonke]

Looks like you have a relay of some sort running into a glass generator. Ideally, the stock intake would probably work best for HHO since it would generate a 3psi vacuum on the generator which would create higher production.

Though, with glass right there at the front, good luck when a rock hits that. I would've hunted down a stainless creation instead.

[Shadowen925]

I have a cover over the glass to protect from rocks, I just took it off for pics. Cant use anything metal because it cant be conductive. Though, even if it did crack i would be no big deal. It's not dangerous and easy to replace that part.

[2001zincsr]

What are you using for your electrolyte? KOH? NaOH? Baking Soda?
Do you know how much hydrogen you are producing(LPM)? And how many amps are you drawing?
Do you have anything for tuning such as an EFIE on the O2 sensor?
How is your cell constructed? Are you winding wire or are you using plates?

Im looking into this too, this is the first zx2 Ive seen with one.

[LiveWire]

If you produced the hydrogen from wall power and compressed into a small tank, it would make a lot more sense to me. You would not be putting a higher load on your alternator. The amount produced by the in car setup is so small anyway that you would not need a very large tank to hold the amount needed for an entire tank of gas.

[Gregersonke]

I just noticed that you are using rubber hose for your output. Rubber is made of oil and oil reacts with oxygen in not so good ways(catches fire). That is why they don't use scuba regulators to distribute oxygen.

[KingRey]

My father has a 2004 Nissan Titan which gets about 13 MPG city. He installed an HHO cell and is now getting about 16-17 MPG city. He has not hooked up any other devices i.e. EFIE or O2 sensor spacers yet. Nor has he taken his truck on a long trip. I am going to put an HHO cell on my 2000 ZX2. I will post up my results when I get them.

The website he used to make his HHO cell is water4gas.com

[DOUGIESTYL]

I've been interested in this technology for awhile, now. Hydrogen fuel cell cars are all over Europe, now.
So, a how-to? I could prolly throw one of these together in about an hour with stuff from around my garage, if it's as simple of a system as I think.

[random_hero]

David Gettles setup:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/akarandomhero4/DSC_0019.jpg

[david gettle]

OK... since my name is being braught up in this, here is the web site I purchased the unit I have from (not that I am endorsing their product) www.hydranox5000.com.

It separates Hydrogen and Oxygen from water, it does not use HHO (brown's gas), the O2 is vented out, the Hydrogen is sent to the air intake. Using brown's gas in a car with a computer that controls fuel mixture will increase the oxygen content of the intake air stream, and nullify (at least in part) any savings seen from the addition of the hydrogen (based on what I've read) the system I'm using adds about 1MPG.

F.Y.I. The electrolite used in the system I'm using is citric acid (Sodium Citrate).

[Exodia]

Hmm.. interesting concept, any updates?

[random_hero]

You seem agitated... I can remove my post...just though I'd try to help add to the thread in a usefull way, if you do, just let me know and its not a prob!

[jhorn_007]

ive been looking in to this too. i found a pretty good site/forum. there are several different design plans there as well as test results and MPG reports. I'm planning on doing a randy cell on my Z. plans for it and a few others are in the blog section

http://www.hydrogengenerator.cc/

I cant wait to get my system on it, the first test appeared to be a lot more productive than any of my others :)

[david gettle]

You seem agitated... I can remove my post...just though I'd try to help add to the thread in a usefull way, if you do, just let me know and its not a prob!

Leave you post as it is, I was just having a bad day at work. I hadn't realized how much it showed untill I just re-read my post.

[Exodia]

Well this topic got my brain rolling a bit, so I did some research. For anybody interested in the topic I found a guy on Youtube that doing a pretty in depth review of this topic. It seems like he is only a couple of weeks from his analysis if even that long.

http://www.youtube.com/user/AlmostHydrogen

I personally am waiting on this guy to finish his research before I spend any money myself. However if anybody wants to jump on making their own booster here is a link to a diagram of the Smack Booster. This is not copyrighted material he has it free on the net to help the HHO scene.

http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf

The concept seems very interesting. I can see how it is possible that it could work. However my concern here is that in order for this to work right you have to fool the ECU. Because the HHO makes a more complete burn you have to alter the signal being sent from the O2 sensor, to make the ecu think it is seeing a rich signal when it is seeing a lean signal. So.. Would the more complete burn of fuel, and burning Hydrogen more instead of all gas lead to higher temps in the cylinder, and would this lead to damage to the rings and valve seals?

[Unlikely Hero]

subscribing...something interesting to do once I get back to the states.
=J-

[DOUGIESTYL]

Thanks for the links, Exodia! I'll be at the store tomorrow.