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yellow2000S/R
05-16-2008, 05:07 PM
At school, (WyoTech) we finished body work with 220 grit. Then you put 3 to 4 layers of a high build primer on. Wait till cured per instructions. Then wet-sand with 400 until you get the major highs down, then go to 500 till you get the shiny dots gone, and then go over it easy with 600 just to get it that much more smooth.

When it comes time for paint, take your time. You need to have proper distance, fan pattern, and speed. If you go to fast, the same with to far away, you can create a dry spray which will result in coarse paint. If you go to slow, or are to close, you could create runs/sags and also if it is a metallic, completely change the color because the flakes will tumble as they sag and not lay flat like they should. Proper distance AND spray pattern is 6" to 8".

On the guns at school, Devilbiss and Sata, a wall pressure of 48 lbs was adequate for compensating the pressure drop in the 25' hoses and in the gun to get approximately the correct spray cap pressure. You should have the fluid (paint) needle backed off. To adjust it, pull the trigger back and screw it in until you can feel the trigger getting pushed back forward, then back off it slightly and then use the thumb nut and snug it up so it doesn't move.

TAKE YOUR TIME - Have at least a charcoal respirator on for the painting stage, preferably a fresh air mask (expensive for those that are only going to do this once).

Start on one side over the vehicle. At school, we started on the drivers pillars and worked up them to the rain guards/rails and then across the roof almost as far as we could reach. Then you walk around to the other side and catch that wet edge and keep spraying front to back across the roof to that rain guard and down the pillars. Then you can choose how to do the sides/front/rear. Usually we did the passenger side in long sweeps instead of panel by panel. Then you work across the hood, again like the roof, from the passenger side to the driver side, sweeping up and down it from the bumper to windshield. Then do the bumper. Then you do the driver side and back up over the trunk as you choose. By this time, you should be about 12-17 minutes into the paint-job which is time for another coat because it already flashed (usual is 15 minutes). Have somebody assisting you pre mixing the paint and getting ready to pour it into your cup on the gun.

Keep that process going until you have 2+ coats of paint on BEING CAREFUL that you do not bump the paint with anything. WATCH THE AIR HOSE and make sure it is clean prior to painting. Let it flash for an additional 5-10 minutes after you finish the last coat, DO NOT spray the "extra" paint on. If you don't get the same amount of coats / coverage on the entire car, it will most likely be noticeable, especially depending on your primer and paint colors.

We NEVER wet-sanded the paint. I don't remember learning about it. The only reason you MIGHT need to wet-sand the paint is if you get a run / sag. Then you have to let it sit for an hour or so so it cures and then you can wet-sand it without tearing the paint off b/c of it being so soft. YOU NEVER WETSAND THE FINAL COAT OF PAINT. You should have, at minimum, 1 coat of paint over the wet-sanded area. DO NOT OVER SAND, the worst thing you could do is sand to far and go down to the primer.



Then comes time for spraying the clearcoat.

COVER YOU SKIN, NECK, HAIR. Clearcoat is sticky and irritates the hell out of you when it lays on your hair. It is recommended to have a Fresh Air Respirator for this. Charcoal masks do not protect enough but is "fine" if you are only going to do it once.

AGAIN, take your time. Do the same process as above for the first 2-3 coats (depending on how much you got). Then for the final coat, add A LITTLE more reducer than the mixing ratio calls for, this will allow it to flow a little better and fill in some of the orange peel you may have created from improper spraying techniques which in turn, creates less sanding in the end. Once the final coat is on, let the car sit. If you have access to baking it, do so. Then let the car cool and sit at least 12 hours so the clear isn't soft before you wet-sand the clear and then compound/glaze it. If you do not have access to baking it, let the car sit for 3 days till it is cured. Make sure it is in a dust / dirt free area with limited to no traffic and no wind or bugs.



Once cured, you wet-sand/compound/glaze the clear if you want show quality finish (there is less work if you know how to spray your materials right).


Option A: Wet sand

You should start with no lower than 1,500 grit. DO NOT USE 1,000 grit unless it is on the immediate area of a run or sag. NEVER GO LOWER THAN 1000 GRIT. Put a Tbsp of Dawn dish liquid soap into a bucket and fill it with at least a gallon of water. You want to sand in 1 direction, then switch 30* to the other direction. Once everything is sanded with the 1,500 grit, allow the car to air dry and check over the work for any shiny spots. The entire car should have a dull appearance, almost a white to it. If you have shiny spots, you didn't sand enough in that area. DO NOT WORK ONLY THAT AREA FOR SANDING THE CLEAR. You don't want to over sand the area and create a semi-flat area and change the reflection in the clear when all is said and done and you could possibly "burn" the paint causing it to lift.

Once finished with 1,500 grit, go to 2,000 grit. You should final sand the 2,000 grit in the opposite direction you final sanded the 1,500 grit. Allow the car to dry and look for any sanding marks going the direction the 1,500 grit was going. If you see them, keep sanding with the 2,000 grit.

Once the sanding marks are gone, you can choose to either start compounding the car now, or go to 3,000 grit. If you choose 3,000 grit, do the angle you did for the 1,500 grit until all the 2,000 grit scratches are gone.


Option B: Dry-sand and light wet-sanding

If you have a hook-it type DA sander, use 1500. Once everything is sanded with the 1,500 grit, blow the car off and wipe it down and check over the work for any shiny spots. The entire car should have a dull appearance, almost a white to it. If you have shiny spots, you didn't sand enough in that area. DO NOT WORK ONLY THAT AREA FOR SANDING THE CLEAR. You don't want to over sand the area and create a semi-flat area and change the reflection in the clear when all is said and done and you could possibly "burn" the paint causing it to lift.

Then do 3000 on the DA having a spray bottle handy. It only takes a little water to do the wet-sanding.


COMPOUNDING

Use an orbital buffer if you haven't used a rotary buffer before. If you do use a rotary buffer, stay off of edges and don't stay in one spot to long. If you get the paint to hot, you could "bubble" it which will drastically reduce the life of the paint in that area. ALSO, if you use a rotary buffer, keep the side that you are buffing with to come off of edges. You do not want the buffer pad to catch on edges. It could rip the clear and paint off.

When you are done with compounding, the clear should be relatively... well... clear! LOL You should have an even reflection on the entire car, if you notice dull spots, go over them again. Then comes glazing the car. You use a finer buffer pad and this removes the scratches from the compound and its harsher pad. Then comes final glaze which is usually applied by hand and give the clear a little more luster because it removes very very fine scratches.

1981gMachine
05-16-2008, 05:47 PM
Just to add another few things, since there are tons of ways everybody does this.


- The Iwata LPH400 is GOD for spraying clear.
- More coats of clear the more prone to chipping and cracking. 2-3max
- If using PPG there is a 15deg rule. All the product sheets are based off of 70deg temp. If you are painting at 85deg your times are cut in 1/2. If you are painting at 55deg your times will be doubled.

Example: 10-15 flash time between base is cut in 1/2 to 5-7.5min if it's 85

- Always use the right temp reducer & hardener. If it's 87 use 85. If it's 89 use 95. The paint will not dry quicker if it's 85deg and your using 70deg reducer. When in doubt use a reducer that has a higher temp. It may take a little more time to dry but will flow longer.



If you want a like glass look: Wet sand 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000, 3000 with 1000 thru 2000 on a soft/hard block and 3000 on the DA. Now hit it enough with the 1000 to get the nibs and other defects out. Then hit it real good with 1200. The rest of the grits are used to remove the previous grit scratches.

If done right you'll have what's below (looking at the side of a truck)
http://a28.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/113/l_13bef49cc3dbe7a492bf8f0a27c8e7b3.jpg

1981gMachine
05-16-2008, 05:49 PM
Oh...

- Heat is needed to bring the shine back when buffing, so you can get this with high rpms or more pressure. However too much heat and you rip your clear off.
- When using the foam pad after the wool, keep the rpms low, high speeds equals those nasty swirl marks.

yellow2000S/R
05-16-2008, 07:01 PM
Oh...

- Heat is needed to bring the shine back when buffing, so you can get this with high rpms or more pressure. However too much heat and you rip your clear off.
- When using the foam pad after the wool, keep the rpms low, high speeds equals those nasty swirl marks.


1 guy at work prefers wool, the other guy prefers foam. Wool usually has a higher cut and causes swirls easier than foam (or at least in the times I've used both).

As for the Iwata gun... I've heard nothing but great reviews from it. I know 3 people that use it for shooting their clear (that should tell you something). 2 of them use a 1.2 tip, not sure what size the 3rd guy uses. From what I've heard, the Iwata rebuild kits are also cheap in price compared to other guns.


I still have yet to buy any guns. I just dropped nearly $200 on a good DA and a blow gun. I'll be saving for the guns for a few weeks. In 1.5 months student loans start and ~$780 is due for 6 months of insurance.



As for you mentioning wet sanding...

The only time I've done wet sanding with a block was up at school (WyoTech).


I work at a BMW/Porsche/Mercedes/Audi dealer's collision center and all we do is dry sanding. We start with 1500 dry on a DA. We use the 1500 to take down any dirt/fibers that may have made its way into the paintjob. Then we do 3000 with a light mist of water on the panels with the DA. Then comes buffing with Ultra Cut Compound followed by swirl mark remover. On darker paint we use another product after the swirl mark remover but the name is slipping my mind.


I'd take pics of the cars I work on but its listed in the handbook cameras aren't allowed (privacy issue with customers or something). Mainly its BMWs and Mercedes... havent been too many Audi or Porsches lately.

1981gMachine
05-16-2008, 09:52 PM
I believe the Iwata only comes in a 1.3 1.4 tip. I have a 1.3 and my buddy has a 1.4. I also have a Sata2000 HVLP I use for sealer and basecoat. And for rebuild kits, couldn't tell you. I've only had to replace the packings and that's because I forgot to take them out when soaking the gun. I put both of mine in a gun cleaner and never have an issue with seals. Only if you let them soak will an issue arise.

As for wool vs foam, that's more of a preference to the shop. I use wool my buddies shop uses foam.

Now are you sanding these cars after baking them? Cuz I spray in a 1960 something Binks crossflow paint booth. I don't have a bake feature so I don't cut/buff til next day. I've found the DA's don't knock the dib down all the way. Meaning once buffed up you can see a small bump.

I paid $230 for my Iwata and $150 for my Sata, both used but in Mint Condition.
http://a606.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/39/l_c107740c613d102b29060be0dd50847d.jpghttp://a94.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/87/l_935d9ec3dc95cfa3653a4a95f1f9bd1d.jpg

I think I've spent between 5-6K in tools in the last year and still drop a hundred or so every couple months.

scort2498
05-16-2008, 10:47 PM
whats the most common mistake a novice painter makes.

1981gMachine
05-16-2008, 10:58 PM
whats the most common mistake a novice painter makes.

That's a tough one...

I would say not taking their time and rushing. Something F's up, stop and let stuff dry.

yellow2000S/R
05-17-2008, 11:39 AM
I believe the Iwata only comes in a 1.3 1.4 tip. I have a 1.3 and my buddy has a 1.4. I also have a Sata2000 HVLP I use for sealer and basecoat.

You can get a 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.6, and 1.8 tip for the Iwata.



That's a tough one...

I would say not taking their time and rushing. Something F's up, stop and let stuff dry.

Id agree with this and I'll add that they do not take enough time doing the "prep" work. The car needs to be CLEAN or you will have delaminating problems and/or see fingerprints/smudges from dirt/grease/wax. Clean around the windows. Spray a lot of wax&grease under the seals and blow it out with air, do this till the wax&grease remover drys uniform and there aren't any dark smears from wax coming outta the cracks.

Take your time taping. Some rubbers / plastics are practically impossible to get paint/clear off of and if you use chemicals on them it can make the black go to a gray.

MAKE SURE ALL SAND SCRATCHES ARE GONE. Worst thing is to be spraying a metallic and have sand scratches. As the paint flows some on the panel, the metallics will get caught in the scratches and stand up on edge. This makes the scratches stand out more because you don't have the reflection from the metallics making it essentially darker.

Robend
05-25-2008, 01:45 PM
awesome write up... makes me feel a little bit more comfortable about painting, now i know i should probably go to a junkyard and pick up a cheap door or fender and practice on it until i get the technique down. this is obviously something you dont just go into blind eyed

havocsmaster
05-25-2008, 03:13 PM
y'all wanna come down a paint my car???
it really needs it!!!!

yellow2000S/R
05-25-2008, 04:14 PM
y'all wanna come down a paint my car???
it really needs it!!!!

I've already been asked by others LOL.

I dont have enough experience actually spraying to take on spraying. Here in a few months I'll be spraying at work so after some more hands-on experience, I'll be offering painting/body work.

random_hero
05-25-2008, 06:01 PM
I opened up the thread just to ask you if there was any possibilty you'd paint mine if I drove to PA.

I fail =(

yellow2000S/R
05-25-2008, 07:20 PM
I opened up the thread just to ask you if there was any possibilty you'd paint mine if I drove to PA.

I fail =(

My mom found a paint booth availble to rent 3 hrs for $8 or 24 hrs for $30. I'll post when I start doing this stuff.

I have to finish the flares and harness bars 1st. Then between my job and working on my 240sx, my spare time will be taken for a while.

Keytar Player
05-27-2008, 10:20 AM
I find that using the Spray paint from Pep Boys works best.. Be sure to tape off your flame stickers though.. otherwise you will have to buy new ones

Buster
05-27-2008, 11:59 AM
^

Ban