What if gasoline Cost $10 per gallon ??

[JonsZX2SR]

What if gasoline cost $10 per gallon ?? (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveonaCar/WhatIfGasCost10DollarsAGallon.aspx)

Europe is already close at $8-9 per gallon. Time to start building the infrastructure to make synthfuel from coal at an equivalent cost of $6.00-750 per gallon.

Let's not wait until gasoline actually hits $10 per gallon.

[OGreaTFuzzY1]

ow wow ill get a horse to go to work and back

~Fuzzy

[4U2QUIK]

megasquirt it, change the fuel lines and pump, install a wideband, and go with whatever fuel is cheap at the moment.

[nike13857]

moped.....100mpg, and only costs $2K
Or the 70 mpg, which can go on the highway, for $4500

[CraZx2ing]

What if gasoline cost $10 per gallon ?? (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveonaCar/WhatIfGasCost10DollarsAGallon.aspx)

Europe is already close at $8-9 per gallon.
Isn't their money also worth double ours bringing it down to an adjusted $4-5/gal? Not sure if thats how it works... just curious.

[capitalcrew]

Hopefully hydrogen will be an alternative by then..

[raider]

Hopefully hydrogen will be an alternative by then..
No, ethanol will be the alternative fuel. Brazil's cars all run on ethanol.

[capitalcrew]

Lol @ ethanol.

Hydrogen is the only solution.

[raider]

Why lol @ ethanol

[escortmike]

ethanol is a BAD idea. We are already having food shortages, using food as a source of fuel will starve entire nations!!!

[zxtwou2]

hydrogen FTW...made with solar, wind, geothermic, or hydro power. i'm kind of against hydro power, though...even if fish ladders provide aid for the animals, it prevents too much natural silt from flowing.

[TTFOWIA]

yeah, ethanol is also the same pollution wise... cuz making it pollutes as much as gas

[JonsZX2SR]

The problem with hydrogen is how to store it in a vehicle. Practical tanks capable of storing enough hydrogen to travel 100 miles require about 3000 psi burst pressure and are heavy. There are also issues of safety and speed of high pressure refueling.

The problem with storing Hydrogen is the critical temp is -240C (-400F.) Above this temperature Hydrogen cannot be liquified no matter how much pressure you apply. If you can't liquify the gas, the gas law applies (PV = nRT.) Therefore you need very high pressure to store hydrogen at any kind of reasonsble density.

People are trying to develop metal hydride systems where hydrogen can be stored inside a metal matrix, platinum, palladium, titanium. It sounds counterintuitive, but you can actually store more hydrogen as a metal hydride than by compressing the gas. The reason this happens is the hydrogen (H2) dissociates and the two 'naked' protons go into holes in the metal matrix. The two electrons add to the electron cloud that forms a conduction band and shield the protons from the meatl nucli and each other. You can actually pack more hydrogen in hydride form in a given volume than than you can in the same volume at 3000 psi.

The three problems with metal hydride storage technology are that it is difficult to get the H2 in and out of the matrix, it is still expensive and metal hydrides are very flammable It is far more difficult to extinguish a metal hydride fire than gasoline.

High pressure storage makes more sense for truck, buses and locomotives, than for cars. This is one of the reasons some fuel cell powered vehicles generate H2 by reforming gasoline, diesel fuel or ethanol. When the problem of H2 storage is solved you will see more hydrogen powered vehicle, using both combustion engines or fuel cells.

[MrWeeyums]

ethanol is a BAD idea. We are already having food shortages, using food as a source of fuel will starve entire nations!!!

Not ours. Some of those nations we export to should become self reliant and learn to not grow a population bigger than the land can support.
~Ryan

[Buster]

If it gets over $6, I'd hope we ALL have the sense to vote out any Congressman from either party who has been opposing using our domestic resources.

It's not a permament solution, but it will sustain us for a long time without using Muslim or Communist oil until we can perfect an alternative source.

[Buster]

ethanol is a BAD idea. We are already having food shortages, using food as a source of fuel will starve entire nations!!!

Plus, it's a LESS efficient fuel.

I agree, ethanol is a terrible idea and will probably make our situation worse.

[capitalcrew]

Indeed buster. People talk about how we shouldn't rely on domestic resources.. but the price drop while using domestic resources would be a relief and before we ever came close to exhausting our oil supply we could perfect any alternative, like you said.

People say we need to keep our reserves so we have oil when the rest of the world is dry.. why the hell would we need to do that? Only a closed minded person would say that. Long before the rest of the world uses its oil supply, we will be reliant on a new energy source.

Yes, ethanol is terribly inefficient. Gas mileage drops when you use ethanol enriched fuels.. doesn't anyone know this? Also relying on corn or any other crop to fuel America would screw with our farming. Corn growing would go through the roof and the price of other grains would skyrocket because no one would be producing them anymore. Also, being reliant on a fuel source that is dependent on the weather does not appeal to me. What if we have a bad drought and our only fuel source is made from the food we wouldn't be able to grow..

[PHeller]

Ethanol got a big boost because farmers loved it, and because they loved it, Republican's supported it, and because it was "renewable" resource, Democrats supported it as well. Farmer didn't have to change farming habits, and they had increased demand.

As soon as you tell farmers that you'd like to put a wind farm, solar farm, and switch grass on their farms, they'll be a lot less supportive of alternative fuels, because it'll cost them money.

[capitalcrew]

Everyone will jump to produce corn. I can tell you right now with the increased demand we would start growing a lot more corn, and a lot less of other grains. That isn't exactly good.

[Buster]

http://www.inkycircus.com/jargon/images/nuclear_power_plant.gif

[PHeller]

Nuclear is awesome, we just need some place to go with the spent fuel.

I say, we develop fail safe measures to send it to deep space.

[capitalcrew]

I say we put the waste in the water supplies of third world countries.

Kill two birds and 3 million with one pile of nuclear waste!

[af3ll]

If gas costs $10 per gallon, all of you will still pay for it.

[capitalcrew]

True. I'd be driving a moped though. I have no choice but to pay for it.. public transportation is not available where I am from.

[af3ll]

Yeah this country needs to wake up on the public transportation thing. Europe has got it down.

[Waterboy9000]

biodiesel FTW. can be used in a unmodified diesel fuel.
burns clean, renewable, and domestically produced!

[capitalcrew]

I live in a rural area mang. I wouldn't be able to use public transportation in Europe either. I do agree though that public transportation is inadequate. If it was better and gas prices went up a lot more I'd buy a moped, ride to a bus station and go from there.

[Buster]

But, if gas prices are that high, bus tickets will go up a lot too. Plus, they'll probably have to expand their scheule because of more people wanting to use them, so more maintenance and operating costs on top of the fuel costs...

SO, public trans will never really work for you.

Maybe I'll just start jogging to work. 12 miles isn't that bad. :D

[Buster]

Yeah this country needs to wake up on the public transportation thing. Europe has got it down.


That's because they're overtaxed into oblivion, even MORE than we are!


Also, it's not feasible in most of our much larger nation. We have regions with mountains, sparsely-populated areas and all kinds of other terrains that will never see rails. It's just not possible in much of the nation outside of urban areas. Our nation is laid out differently than must European countries.

Aside from the cost...we need a better solution.

[JonsZX2SR]

That's because they're overtaxed into oblivion, even MORE than we are!

Also, it's not feasible in most of our much larger nation. We have regions with mountains, sparsely-populated areas and all kinds of other terrains that will never see rails. It's just not possible in much of the nation outside of urban areas. Our nation is laid out differently than must European countries.

Aside from the cost...we need a better solution.

The US has approx. 298 million people and 3.15 million square miles in the continuous 48 states.

Depending on how much of eastern Europe you include, the population of Western and central Europe is about 460 million people distributed over 1.7 million square miles. So their density is a bit less than triple ours.

Having been to quite a few large cities in France, Germany and Switzerland recently, the areas around those cities aren't much different than cities in the central and northeastern US. If anything the population density between cities in the US is equal or higher. Traveling between Germany and Paris or south of Paris I noticed many wide open areas.

The Europeans have mountainous regions just as we do and bigger problems with inland waterways. The eastern half of the US doesn't differ significantly than western Europe around Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy and Spain. The Europeans just do a better job of providing mass transportation in those areas.

Public transportation could be improved to European levels if we had the incentive to do so. The problems we have with managing our economy, providing public transport, etc. stems from our inability to make decisions, and stubborn uninformed people who obstruct change.

Considering that Europe is less resource rich than the US, the taxation rate is higher and fuel costs twice as much, why is the European economy stronger than ours. Why is the Euro stronger than the dollar ??

I've asked this a few times and no one seems to want to answer. Perhaps they manage their economy (in particular the EU better than we manage ours. Perhaps they manage their transportation systems better than we do.

The answer is we need better solutions. The problem is too few Americans want to be part of those tough solutions. Whe have too many whiners and complainers who want things the way they were who are resistant to change.

[4U2QUIK]

Way way too many whiners and complainers

[JonsZX2SR]

ethanol is a BAD idea. We are already having food shortages, using food as a source of fuel will starve entire nations!!!

Given the cost of imported oil and the devaluation of the dollar we can't afford to help starving nations any more. Rich OPEC nations should become the benefactor of the poor and the world needs to let them know that.

If you are going to make fuel from corn, you need to use the entire plant, not just the kernels. There is plenty of ethanol or methanol that can be converted from the cellulose in the plant.

Ethanol does have less energy content (heat of combustion) than distilled petroleum fuel. Gasoline is about 47 kJ/kg, ethanol is about 30 kJ/kg and methanol is about 20 kJ/kg. However, since ethanol can be used more efficiently at a higher compression ratio it has about 68% of the available energy of gasoline (rather than 63%.)

However, given the choice of having little or no gasoline due to a shortage of imported oil vs. less efficient ethanol, what do you think consumers would prefer.

The oft-presented argument that ethanol contains less energy than the petroleum needed to produce, it is a spurious argument. You can produce ethanol using ethanol to power the process. Typically you would consume about 1 kg of ethanol for every 2 kg produced, so you'd realize about 2/3 of the theoretical yield from carbohydrates.

Oil refining and distillation also consumes petrolem, using about 1 kg of petroleum fuel for every 3.4-4 kg produced. In neither case do you get a free ride, although you can use methane gas and heavy petroleum to power your petroleum refineries.

[99S/R]

Amen Buster.
Supply & demand still drive the fuel prices, and if we don't need forgein fuel then they will lose part of their market.
by the way, we get most of our imported oil from Canada with the price controlled by a NAFTA clause.... no NAFTA and the price goes up even more!!!

Bill

[ChillinZX]

If gasoline was $10 a gallon, I would pay $25 a week instead of $10 a week in gas, no big deal.

[yellow2000S/R]

If gas gets to even $6 a gallon, I'll be 30 lbs lighter and leaving for work around 1.5 hrs earlier to ride my bicycle there. Its 12 miles away and after the 1st 1/4 of the way there, its relatively flat.

I don't understand my parents tho. My mom has flex hrs, she can show up between 6am and 8am, leaving between 3 and 5pm. She chooses 6 am so she can come home earlier. My dad works 1 mile from where my mom works, on a road she TAKES to get to work. He can opt to do the "morning" shift which is 8am-4:30pm. This would get 1 vehicle off the road in the household taking 70 miles / week off a vehicle and saving around $15/week+additional costs like maintenance, just doing that.

Now if they would go shopping after work (they work out near all the shopping centers... stores are between 1 and 3 miles away from their work) they could save WAY more.

Instead they come home at their separate times, and then go back out.


I know we aren't the only family like this, so if we could just reduce stuff like that, it would have a HUGE impact on the consumption of gas and oil products because you are cutting down overall mileage and service/maintenance costs.



Now that I'm really thinking of it, I'm going to have to talk to them about them sharing a ride. I'll let you guys know any updates. Its been said many many times that there are too many multi-person vehicles on the road with only 1 person in them.

[silent_1999]

"What the hell is a rant".....(Peter-Family Guy)

[Loser47]

If gas ever gets to $10 a gallon, i will have an excuse to buy a kawasaki ninja to ride back and forth to work on.

[raider]

if gas gets that high i will not drive.

[joshalabama]

Well i've noticed race gas has stayed relatively the same price. I can get 100 octane for 5.03 a gallon. It has been like that for a long time because it is a mostley synthetic fuel...we could all just increase the compression on our cars. lol, just a quick idea.

[zxtwou2]

Well i've noticed race gas has stayed relatively the same price. I can get 100 octane for 5.03 a gallon. It has been like that for a long time because it is a mostley synthetic fuel...we could all just increase the compression on our cars. lol, just a quick idea.

or add copious amounts of boost.

[joshalabama]

or add copious amounts of boost.


Indeed sir!

[af3ll]

if gas gets that high i will not drive.
I bet you will.

[4U2QUIK]

or add copious amounts of boost.
hmmmmmmm whenever I add copious amounts of boost my mpg goes through the floor. from a measely 15-17 mpg at 6psi to a unbelievable 8-10 mpg at 12psi.

[lamouche98zx2]

it's already 1.28$ a liter here and around 1.40$ someplace in downtown montreal....already over 5$ a gallon...

[CraZx2ing]

I bet you will.
I will. but it will be on a moped that gets 100mpg. I'm considering a 125cc scooter for the wife and I to go to work on right now. about 75mpgs on that. It took about $3/gal for me to consider it and at about $5/gal I will probably buy it. The gas savings alone would make up the payment (unless i just buy it in cash).


Random thinking below:
Just for work driving I am doing 390miles/month. gas is 3.78/gal right now so and i am getting 16mpg. soooo ~24.5 gal * 3.78 is $92/mo just for work.

With the 70mpg scooter it'd b 5.5 gal * 3.78 which is only about $21 a month just for driving to work.

I'd save $71 right now if i started scooting to work. There are other places i often go, like families houses, that are fairly nearby that I wouldn't mind taking the scooter to. This could push me to 100-120/mo savings. i'd just do some random/rainy day driving in the jeep.

[Loser47]

1 word. Ninja.

If youre gonna get better gas mileage, do it in style

[ChrisK]

I drive my motorcycle a lot more than I use to, that's for sure. I get 50mpg on it if I don't beat on it. and 35 if I do beat on it. So it works out.

[PHeller]

1 word. Ninja.

If youre gonna die, do it in style

That's about right.

[LiveWire]

biodiesel FTW. can be used in a unmodified diesel fuel.
burns clean, renewable, and domestically produced!

A station by me sells B20. My mileage in my Jetta went up by 5% from 40 to 42, driving as easy as I can 75% city driving. I get 38-39 with full throttle starts, 80 or more on the highway. I drive 6 miles round trip out of my way to get fuel there. It is also a Marathon so I can do the gift card thing. A $100 gift card costs $96 so a 4% discount. I then pay for the fuel with the gift card.

I ordered up the parts to build my own bio diesel processor. I figure I'll have about $400 into the setup to make it for around $1.50 per gallon not factoring in anything for my time.

[Loser47]

thats not bad, especially when its already $5 where i live. You would save a ton of money if you already owned a diesel car or truck

[CraZx2ing]

1 word. Ninja.

If youre gonna get better gas mileage, do it in style

Style stops mattering so much once your married and have a mortgage.

[slammmed]

everyone jumps on the motorcycle and moped solution... now we've driven the cost of mopeds and motorcycles up.

5 months ago I could have bought a honda ruckus for $500 less.

Also we need to think about safety and practicality.

[ChrisK]

If everyone got a motorcycle or moped then I wouldn't have to watch out for as many cars trying to hit me. Therefore safety goes up!

[slammmed]

If everyone got a motorcycle or moped then I wouldn't have to watch out for as many cars trying to hit me. Therefore safety goes up!

Do you really think drivers would be more "aware" just because there are more mopeds/motorcycles?

The amount of people switching to these vehicles is no where near the amount to offset safety

[CraZx2ing]

Mopeds, scooters, and motorcycles are the best, immediate, temporary solution. I would rather get 70mpg on a scooter while the technologies are being developed and gas prices are high than getting 15mpg in my Jeep and taking it up the rear.

Yes, as more "motos" are used accidents will go up. So will fatalities. That just makes sense. I've been noticing more and more around me while driving and I have been keeping an eye out so I don't run anyone over.

Most of the accidents that were my friends, people I know, or read in the paper were caused by them being dumb. 90mph on a city street, someone pulls out in front of them, boom they die. What did they expect to have happen??? Yes, I know, that is not how all accidents occur, but like i said, it is my experience that accidents are preventable if the moto driver is being responsible. They need to be looking out for them selves knowing that the other drivers are just out to get them. You can not be aggressive on a bike in a city, thats just dumb.

[slammmed]

Mopeds, scooters, and motorcycles are the best, immediate, temporary solution. I would rather get 70mpg on a scooter while the technologies are being developed and gas prices are high than getting 15mpg in my Jeep and taking it up the rear.

Yes, as more "motos" are used accidents will go up. So will fatalities. That just makes sense. I've been noticing more and more around me while driving and I have been keeping an eye out so I don't run anyone over.

Most of the accidents that were my friends, people I know, or read in the paper were caused by them being dumb. 90mph on a city street, someone pulls out in front of them, boom they die. What did they expect to have happen??? Yes, I know, that is not how all accidents occur, but like i said, it is my experience that accidents are preventable if the moto driver is being responsible. They need to be looking out for them selves knowing that the other drivers are just out to get them. You can not be aggressive on a bike in a city, thats just dumb.

I agree, thats the way I see things now and how i see them going. I was riding my inlaws honda ruckus and got cut off. Granted I was only doing 35mph but 35mph into a brick wall can still be life threatening.

[AZN_ZX2]

I don't know if someone's said it already but if gas were $10 a gallon I'd pay up without bitching. Cars are my thing so obviously I'm going to have to deal with it. There's worse things to bitch about anyway.

[CraZx2ing]

If you were paying $100 a month for gas at $2/gal and gas hits $10/gal you'd be paying $500/mo. That's pretty much a car payment right there lol.

[JonsZX2SR]

Think we have it tough ?? Fuel is appraching $9 per gallon in Europe (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1809900,00.html).

[af3ll]

I used to live there. I know.

[CraZx2ing]

Think we have it tough ?? Fuel is appraching $9 per gallon in Europe (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1809900,00.html).

Currently their money is worth nearly double ours. Does this bring the price down to the $5/gal range? Do they make double the pay we do? Or would it take almost $18USD to buy $9EU in gas???

[AZN_ZX2]

If you were paying $100 a month for gas at $2/gal and gas hits $10/gal you'd be paying $500/mo. That's pretty much a car payment right there lol.

And like a good amount of people I NEED my car to get to work and class on time so I'd just have to deal with it and adjust.

Currently their money is worth nearly double ours. Does this bring the price down to the $5/gal range? Do they make double the pay we do? Or would it take almost $18USD to buy $9EU in gas???

I imagine if they said $9 they mean $9 US dollars. If they were referring to Brit currency it'd be euros. I didn't read the article though so I dunno

[JonsZX2SR]

You have it backwards, fuel costs the about 5.7 eu per gallon or about 1.50 eu per liter right now.

Most Europeans get paid about the same as Americans for similar jobs, factoring in the increase or the Euro vs. the dollar. Two years ago they were paid less. Taxes are higher. Cars cost more when taxes are factored in.

One the flip side the cost of healthcare is less and universities cost very little to those who are qualified. This means college grads leave school with small debts if at all.

The downside of university education is the available spots are limited and standards are fairly high. Those who aren't in the upper half or so in their class have less chance of getting a subsidized education. Private schools for students who aren't at the top of their class aren't common and expensive.

[CraZx2ing]

Gotcha :).

[af3ll]

If they were referring to Brit currency it'd be euros.
British use pounds not euros.

[AZN_ZX2]

British use pounds not euros.

Oh yeah oops. Well ya got the point lol thanks for pointing that out though

[random_hero]

If gas cost 10/gallon - I'd start cyphening gas from people's tanks at the mall.


:shrug:

[zxtwou2]

^i'm surprised you dont hear more of that going on these days. also...drive offs from gas stations without paying is down...odd.

[random_hero]

.....there still places that let you pump w/o paying first?

[ChrisK]

If gas cost 10/gallon - I'd start cyphening gas from people's tanks at the mall.


:shrug:

ever tried siphoning gas from a newer car? Its nearly impossible. I tried to do it to my zx2 because a car show wouldn't let me in cause I had more than 1/4 tank. I bought the kit and everything. You just can't get the tube down the hole. haha

[zxtwou2]

.....there still places that let you pump w/o paying first?

almost all of em in IL...at least around Peoria.

[capitalcrew]

I hate paying first. :/

[LiveWire]

Many around me switched to pay first when they added pay at the pump.

[CraZx2ing]

Drive offs have stopped because when gas got to the astronomical price of $1.50/gal and drive offs started happening, most places required you to swipe your card first or pay inside before pumping. Gas stations that let you pump first with out paying are just, dumb.

The new craze locally is to go to body/repair shops and drill a hole in the bottom of plastic gas tanks of cars that are sitting there waiting to be worked on and draining it out.

[af3ll]

I could never get desperate enough to drill someone's gas tank.

[LiveWire]

Too bad production is delayed on this. 98mpg at 55mph. I'd probably only get 80.

http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com/PDF/MD670F_Spec_Sheet.pdf

[J_Mob]

3/8" hard plastic tubing from water/sewer section works to siphon. I had to siphon my gas back out of my Honda before I sold it. I had some plastic tubing from a water purification system in my garage. it fit and was hard enough to push the flapper out of the way yet flexible enough to get down to the tank. The way the honda was set up, this only got a little gas and I couldn't make the bend to the rest of the tank......then I discovered the drain plug on bottom. Dar dar..ummm

That diesel bike is a cool idea, if it will work on SVO they will have a quick seller around here. Should have went with a cruiser style instead of sport bike look though........

If gas goes to ten bucks a gallon, I am driving my work truck home and Adams County can eat a dick...(told me I can't park a truck in this nieghborhood).

[J_Mob]

hydrogen combustion and biodeisel are two good alternatives to oil based fuels IMO. Ethanol is ok, but jack daniels works about the same. Yum.

The Hydrogen Combustion engine vehicles can also be set up to run on propane/natural gas for when hyd. isn't readily available. there is a company in california that has been setting up cars to run on these alternative fuels for some time....it's just kind of expensive (like 40K on your ride, like 80 for E or F 150/Ranger fleet vehicles set up this way last time I looked at there site-a couple years ago) Natural gas is supposed to go down in price due to them finding a cost effective way to hit underground sources here in Colorado and Wyoming so.............

[random_hero]

ever tried siphoning gas from a newer car?


:winkyface:

[CraZx2ing]

Hey, if gas hits $10/gal does that mean the new car destination charge is going to break through $1000 and a cheap cut of meat that was only $2/lb is now going to cost like $8/lb? What i'm getting at, is everything that is produced and delivered by gas going to go through the roof as well? Sure, your average american can afford $5/gal for gas, but can they afford $10/gal for milk and $5 for a currently $.99 cheese burger. Are bar and grills going to start costing the same as a steakhouse?

Thats what i worry about, the trickle effect.

[J_Mob]

Hey, if gas hits $10/gal does that mean the new car destination charge is going to break through $1000 and a cheap cut of meat that was only $2/lb is now going to cost like $8/lb? What i'm getting at, is everything that is produced and delivered by gas going to go through the roof as well? Sure, your average american can afford $5/gal for gas, but can they afford $10/gal for milk and $5 for a currently $.99 cheese burger. Are bar and grills going to start costing the same as a steakhouse?

Thats what i worry about, the trickle effect.

It's already happening, brother. I went to buy some ribs for bbq on memorial day and it was like 60 bones (at Sam's club, mind you-but they used to be around 45 for the same cut/weight). They are making a huge stink around Denver about the cost of food and supplies going up. Combined with the cost of fuel, local disasters, and the fact that growing food just doesn't pay anymore (easier to sell your land to developers)......shits gettin nasty.

[tweakfreak]

From the little research I have done on alternative fuels Ethanol basically blows and companies such as GM just do it for PR. Biodiesel seems reasonable and also algae seems to be a good alternative:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel

We will start seeing engines change most definitely in the future. I see small DOHC engines w/ a quick spool turbo over 8 cylinders or larger 6 cylinders(3.5+). The additional components(cost) for a turbo engine will be justified by increased fuel economy. Fuel savings would be primarily on freeway instead of the city. This would be due to less pumping losses that larger displacement engines face at high speed. Some city fuel economy would be gained by using less fuel at idle. This is my theory of course. The fuel these engines may run on can vary but the addition compression may provide some flexibility.

The point with the ICE that you cant get around is it will take X fuel to lug around a 5000+lb vehicle from a red light. There are a variety of things that improve efficiency but often the cost in production far outweighs the benefits.

Ideally I would like to see a hybrid that runs off this algae based fuel. I think that would the best blend given our technology and resources. The energy and environmental impact in the production of hybrids have to be considered as well. Another good question is what do you do w/ all the huge 8 cylinder vehicles?

These are just thoughts...

[J_Mob]

Another good question is what do you do w/ all the huge 8 cylinder vehicles?


Demolition Derby.....then melt em down. :smile:

[RedRacer99]

i've asked before... what car runs on e85? you have to have a specific type or mod to enable this? e85 is only 2.99 here.. i'd rock it if i could

[J_Mob]

i've asked before... what car runs on e85? you have to have a specific type or mod to enable this? e85 is only 2.99 here.. i'd rock it if i could

It is alcohol. It'll work in any car, though a cat I work with and some of his friends tried it in a few different vehicles....he said it worked fine in the carbuerated ones but not so good in the injected ones (vs gasoline).

It is already blended with most of the gasolines you buy anymore....

[tweakfreak]

Any car will run e85, its the tuning that's the problem. Ethanol(e85) runs richer and its optimal AFR is different, much different from gasoline(something like 9.7:1 as opposed to 14.7:1 with gasoline). The problem is that engines designed to run on Gasoline cannot take advantage of the additional octane ethanol provides and therefore fuel economy takes a big hit. Boosted folks like the fuel because its "cheap" and the high octane permit high cylinder pressure without pre-detonation(more boost).

[slammmed]

while we are al working on alternative fuels why don't we look at just overall making our cars more effecient?

Take a bicycle for instance. I can have a 21 speed transmission that requires VERY little effort to bike up hill. Why can't we apply that same type of technology to automobiles?

What kind of gas mileage would we see from a scion xb, or a mini cooper if they just had a slightly tilted windshield?

What about the wheel bearings, why don't we have a better designed wheel bearing by now?

How about an automatic/manual clutch system to help you coast downhill? This would reduce allow the engine to run at lower rpm's with less resistance.

What about alternators and compressors? Havent we advanced this enough in other fields, marine, r/c,hybrids etc.. that we should be able to have a better designed alternator on all of our cars now?

I understand all of these take times but IMO these are much more plausable then building an entire industry around the fuel source.

[phosphite]

CVT transmissions have infinite gear ratios, that's your answer to a 21 speed. (don't forget that internal combustion engines make power differently than your legs, maximum power is usually rev'd up higher)

Most cars are wind-tunnel tested anyway; the new Civic has a very raked windshield and contour which probably helps it get its good fuel mileage numbers.

Wheel bearings are probably as good as they can get, they're virtually frictionless, otherwise you'd have to worry about heat dissipation.

If you're coasting downhill in a MTX and in gear with your foot off the gas, most newer cars will cut fuel and have your AFR up around 17:1 or so, basically the wheels are turning the engine over. Otherwise you can either put it in neutral and coast, or just shut off the engine...

I don't know about alternators, but they're pretty efficient themselves. One thing you could do is use waste exhaust gas velocity to spin a turbine that, instead of making boost, helps run the alternator, to provide less drag on the alternator...but I don't know how much a gain that would provide.

Personally, I think we should all be driving go-carts around cities!

[LiveWire]

I believe the losses of a CVT are higher than manual so the highway mileage will stiff suffer. They would still be better than an auto. It would be interesting to see some real world mileage of the auto and CVT Ford 500. I would bet the real world mileage of the CVT is closer to the window sticker than the auto. They do those window sticker mileage driving the optimal acceleration, etc. The CVT will adjust to conditions outside of optimal.

The biggest problem with having many gears is that there are losses during the change so there is a point of diminishing return. On a manual, the general public will buy even less manuals if they have too many gears. In a typical planetary gear set auto, the additional drag of more open clutches will cause more negative impact than the gain. My Jetta is a what they call direct shift. It is a lay shaft transmission like a typical manual, but automatically shifted. It uses dual clutches to leap frog gears. It is sort of like having two manual transmissions. Not sure of the exact mix but is probably something like the following: 1, 3, 5 and like one trans and the other has 2, 4, 6. It clutch shifts from 1 to 2 then mechanically changes 1 to 3 with that first clutch open. It then clutch shifts from 2 to 3. 2 mechanically shifts to 4 while the second clutch is open and so on up to 6. So there is only 1 open clutch with 6 gears. Some autos have 1 clutch per gear giving a lot more drag. Newer 6 speed autos have less than 5 open clutches at any point, but still more than the 1 of the direct shift. The general American population would not appreciate the lack of smoothness my Jetta has though. You can feel the shifts both up and down, especially down.

I like the idea of the compressed air cars. It is the same principle as electric since you would 'recharge' it at home with a compressor running off the power grid. There are no horrible for environment batteries. Fill ups should be fairly quick as opposed to charging over night. Adding a high volume compressed air hose at filling stations would then be feasible.

[Mr Teal 137]

Hopefully gas won't go that far but this might help if we can get it in time.

Last week i was flipping channels and caught my representative on cspan along with reps from Pennsylvania and California finally proposing that the stupid restrictions on drilling off our coast lines be lifted from the 200 mile international waters boarder to 50 miles so you still won't see them. Also to stop letting the sierra club and like groups dictating environmental policy. It the stats that they used, if the organizations were able to stop all the polluting energies, we would lose 94% of the industry.

We have three problems that have been cause by these organizations and the government,
1st we can't drill our own oil
2nd we aren't allowed to build refineries, whose number have dwindled to 146 from 321 in the 70s
3rd the federal reserve is printing so much money to cover our war dept that the dollar has lost its value by a 50% average each year since 1998.

So support Ron Paul and tell you representative to support Rob Bishop's (UT) energy bill.

[JonsZX2SR]

The ultimate CVT is the system used in diesel-electric locomotives, IC-generator, electric Mermaid drives for ships or serial hybrids as proposed for the GM Volt.

The IC engine runs at about constant rpm with the throttle or fuel control maintaining constant rpm. If demand for eletric power increases, the load on the generator increases and vice-versa.

Infinite gear ratios, the ultimate CVT.

* * * * *

Some of what is said about the American economy is true, but the statement the American dollar has lost 50% of it's value per year since 1998 is a grotesque distortion and exaggeration. Did you make this up or is this a Ron Paul lie ??

Is the US economy in big trouble ?? (http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/12/10/business/19691002&sec=business)

Since (1-0.5)^9 = 0.0019 that would make the dollar worth 0.19% or 1/512 of what it was worth in 1998. Clearly this is an exaggeration.

If it were true and gasoline cost $1.65 per gallon in 1998 then gasoline should cost $850 per gallon today (since petroleum is a global commodity.) If that were the case, we should be glad gasoline only costs $4.00-4.50 per gallon. Given the 'claimed' devaluation of the dollar we should all be grateful for 'cheap' fuel prices.

The dollar lost about 60% of it's value over 4 years from about 2004-8 and about 75% since 1998. (It actually increased in value from 1998-2000.) From a global persective the dollar is woth about 1/4th not 1/512th of what it was worth in 1988.

Ron Paul likes to talk alot but his lies and distortions are about as bad as the next guy.