Autocross Impressions

[godspeed]

So I had my first autocross with the ZX2 on Sunday and thought I'd post my impressions of the car here.

I've been autocrossing a 95 Saturn SC1 in a stock class for the last few years. The car had the SOHC engine with 238K miles on it. KYB GR2s, aggressive alignment and Falken 615's. In a class of 25-30 people, I was usually in the top four. I've won a couple times, and took 2nd as my last event.

I have a dealer's license and took a 99 5spd ZX2 with 135K miles in on a trade in. Thought it would be a nice upgrade from the Saturn, so I sold the SC1.

I ran the ZX2 with the wheels/tires from the Saturn. No alignment or any upgrade yet. I was a little disappointed to take 7th place out of 32 in the street tire index class. And that was with some of the faster people in my class not there. Even though I'm new to the car and haven't done an alignment yet, I expected to do better.
Compared to the Saturn, I really like the extra power of the ZX2. I also felt that it rotates a ton better (Saturn had no rear sway bar) and has better steering feel.

Here is what I didn't like. Way too much body roll! I have already ordered S/R struts, new endlinks, and front sway bar bushings. I'm also getting an alignment before the next event. ( I know upgraded springs would help, but they are not allowed in stock classes)

But the biggest dislike I had was the brakes! I don't know how to technically explain it, but the car did not seem to like threshold breaking. You could get hard on the brakes with the Saturn and get a quick predictable slow down. I would hit the brakes hard with the ZX2 and it took a lot longer to slow down. This really threw my off balance and at first caused me to brake way too late, than to compensate, I ended up braking way too early. The pedal didn't seem mushy, it was firm, so I don't think it's a mechanical issue. But maybe a flush and new brakes lines would help?

For those who autocross these car, what do ya think?

[scort2498]

try ss break lines. and new brakes never hurt. hopefully there not on the same stocker pads and rotors. adn u can get the eibach springs and still be considered stock due to the fact that it was an option on the s/r models. should help in body roll.

[paco_swava]

I've got very little experience with the car running stock, but that's mainly because its hard to make the car really competative stock. You might talk to solo, he's run the zx2 for 8 years or so in autox. Def get the eibach springs, and not sure it qualifies for stock, but 21mm rear sway makes a huge difference.

Btw, thanks for letting us know your impressions. Its always nice to get input on the zx2's. :)

[Twiggy2cents]

19mm or 21mm came stock on s/r's ;) i forget which one

and also we have crappy braking small front rotors and reallll crappy drum brakes...

also s/r's came stock with rear disc so you could fudge a little on the rules...and most places dont really care if you break one of the 500 rules they have for each class

natl' is where they really nit pick

but most places its up to the driver to place himself

[godspeed]

I'm comparing the ZX2 to the SC1 which both have small front rotors and rear drums, so I'm surprised at how much worse the Ford performs. Next month I'll do a flush, new brakes lines (would love s/s lines, but they are illegal in my class), and maybe different pads. I'll report back on how that changes things.

I'd love to put more S/R parts on, but I like racing stock (more competition and a lot cheaper!) Our club sticks by the rules pretty close and people really watch those in the top tier. To put S/R springs and a roll bar on, I'd have to convert the whole car into an S/R including putting on rear discs and a new front bumper cover. Then I'd be in GS instead of HS too.

When I put on new struts, bushings, and alignment, and get this braking thing figured out, I think I can make this car competitive.

And in the mean time, the car makes for a great daily driver. Loving the 35mpg!!

[NYRichyone]

19mm or 21mm came stock on s/r's ;) i forget which one

and also we have crappy braking small front rotors and reallll crappy drum brakes...

also s/r's came stock with rear disc so you could fudge a little on the rules...and most places dont really care if you break one of the 500 rules they have for each class

natl' is where they really nit pick

but most places its up to the driver to place himself

They came wth the same 13mm bar as the rest of the ZX2's.

[iceracer]

Brakes on the ZX2 are very good. Yours probably need some TLC. A thorough bleed will do wonders. If it needs new rotors ,stick with OEM type. Hawk HPS or HP+ pads work great. Probably the rears will need reconditioning also.

[zxtwou2]

isn't the zx2 slightly heavier than the saturn? i didn't look up the saturn's weight, but i know they are nicknamed "rubbermade rockets". the zx2 comes in at 2478 i believe. so that might be where the difference in braking comes in.

you could always go STS. i'm in my rookie year with the car, and at the only real event i've run this year, i came within 0.013 seconds of 1st place (a Subaru 2.5RS)...2nd place out of 16 i think.

[Twiggy2cents]

They came wth the same 13mm bar as the rest of the ZX2's.

really? i swore they came with bigger ones

[iceracer]

That was one thing lacking on th SR. They came with the stock 13mm bar, should have come with the 19mm.

[STS-ZX2SR]

Next month I'll do a flush, new brakes lines (would love s/s lines, but they are illegal in my class), and maybe different pads.

I think you'll find that will solve your concerns; get the Hawks.

[ZXTool]

I think you'll find that will solve your concerns; get the Hawks.

Hawk pads are awesome. A definite noticeable improvement.

[cone-cerned]

Hawk pads are awesome. A definite noticeable improvement.

I agree. I have the Hawk HP+ and I really like them. They are dustier and noisier than OEM, but they have very good initial bite and are reasonable to modulate. I change my brake fluid at least once a year and use Ford HP Dot 3 fluid.

New pads, new rotors, new OEM lines and new fluid. You'll be set.

By the way, what tires were on the Saturn and are on the ZX2?

[cone-cerned]

That was one thing lacking on th SR. They came with the stock 13mm bar, should have come with the 19mm.

Two others missing, limited slip diff and 16x7 lightweight wheels.

One thing not lacking, ~250 pounds of extra weight.

But then, we would probably be running in B stock

[godspeed]

New pads, new rotors, new OEM lines and new fluid. You'll be set.

By the way, what tires were on the Saturn and are on the ZX2?

This sounds like a good plan to follow, I'm gonna try those Hawks. Thanks for all the input.

I'm using the 15" stock Saturn "tear drop" style wheels. Super heavy I know, but I'm on a budget. They have Falken RT 615's on em. Had to use 1/4" spacers to make them fit. Gives the car a different look. Maybe not a great look, but different.
Maybe next year I'll splurge on some light weight wheels. Anyone have any suggestions on that?

[godspeed]

isn't the zx2 slightly heavier than the saturn? i didn't look up the saturn's weight, but i know they are nicknamed "rubbermade rockets". the zx2 comes in at 2478 i believe. so that might be where the difference in braking comes in.
.

The weight on these cars is within a hundred pounds of each other. One of the reasons' I chose to keep the ZX2.

[cone-cerned]

This sounds like a good plan to follow, I'm gonna try those Hawks. Thanks for all the input.

I'm using the 15" stock Saturn "tear drop" style wheels. Super heavy I know, but I'm on a budget. They have Falken RT 615's on em. Had to use 1/4" spacers to make them fit. Gives the car a different look. Maybe not a great look, but different.
Maybe next year I'll splurge on some light weight wheels. Anyone have any suggestions on that?

To be legal for stock you have to stay with the same diameter and width as the OEM wheels. They also must be with 1/4" of the same offset. I could not find any off-the-rack 15x5.5 light weight wheels (YMMV). I am using '95 Escort GT wheels for my Kumho V710's. The wheels are about 17.5 lbs each.

The offset of the Saturn wheels plus the 1/4" spacers might put you outside the limit for offset. For our local, regional and divisional events we are not sticklers for the letter of the rules. But, for national tours and nationals people are sticklers.

For the local BMW club, you would run X class; any non-BMW with less than 2100 cc, no R-comps, no aftermarket FI and no S2000's. You would run heads up against CSP Miatas and street mod 2 MR2's. But, they are fun events and a lot of seat time.

[cone-cerned]

The weight on these cars is within a hundred pounds of each other. One of the reasons' I chose to keep the ZX2.

At the Houston National Tour, my car weighted 2478 lbs on the SCCA official scales. Corner weight was 51-49%. I still had my camera equipment and about 1/4 tank of gasoline in the car.

[trekkor]

Some recent results.
Not that great, but look how many Porsches I beat.

http://www.pca-ggr.org/files/htm/051708time.htm ( 2nd time out )
http://www.pca-ggr.org/files/htm/041208time.htm ( 1st time in a ZX2 ever! )


The first time I ever drove the car other than putting it on the trailer was at the a/x.
I logged about eight miles.

The car has good acceration and brakes.
Body roll is not good.

I'm working on that with a big rear bar.


KT

[ZXTool]

Some recent results.
Not that great, but look how many Porsches I beat.

http://www.pca-ggr.org/files/htm/051708time.htm ( 2nd time out )
http://www.pca-ggr.org/files/htm/041208time.htm ( 1st time in a ZX2 ever! )


The first time I ever drove the car other than putting it on the trailer was at the a/x.
I logged about eight miles.

The car has good acceration and brakes.
Body roll is not good.

I'm working on that with a big rear bar.


KT

That's awesome that the first drive was at an autocross. :) I guess that's a good test drive as any. :smile:

[trekkor]

I guess that's a good test drive as any.

I got a real kick out of the fact that so many Porsche a/x'ers got beat by me in a car that I only had six minutes of seat time. http://www.914club.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif

That was with the stock brakes, old fluid and old tires that actually corded on my last run.

The next event was on race brakes, lowered ride height and better tires.
The results show that. http://www.914club.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif


KT

[godspeed]

Nicely done! You run with any other clubs?

Got my 2nd event with the ZX2 on Sunday. Had a list of stuff I wanted done (struts, end links, brakes, alignment) before then, but all I had time for was the end links. Probably would have had the struts/alignment done already, but the struts I ordered from ZXTuner on June 3rd haven't arrived yet. Can't get a hold of the company either. Tried e-mail a few times and have made several phone calls. They have yet to return any of my messages. I will not buy from them again.

[trekkor]

I sent an e-mail to them about one of their used rsb's month's ago. No reply.


KT

[trekkor]

Nicely done! You run with any other clubs?


Thanks.

I run with Porsche Club, Trackmaster's, Hooked on Driving, Coastal Driving School and Unlimited Laps.

Makes for a full year.

I only a/x with PCA.


KT

[godspeed]

Had my second event with the ZX2 yesterday. I think I'm starting to get better feel for the car. Moved up to 3rd place out of 37 cars in Street Tire Index. This time I was more aggressive with the braking and even locked it up a couple of times (not good for times). Still want to do a flush and get those Hawk pads.
And maybe when I get my struts and alignment done, I can have a decent chance at a win or two.
Otherwise, I'm really enjoying this car. Much more enjoyable to drive than the Saturn and it's way better as a daily driver too.

How are other people's seasons going?

Also, where can I get decent muffler for this car. Don't want something that looks or sounds too obnoxious.