Obama.. interesting

[capitalcrew]

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?RsrcID=2036

I won't be giving my opinions in this first post. I will agree that some of this has been skewed horribly, and taken out of context.

Some of it hasn't though.

Discuss, argue, whatever. Just don't get this locked or anyone banned.

[SoCalZX2]

This was posted in another thread... It's an interesting video, but I wasn't gonna vote for him anyways.

[capitalcrew]

I must have missed that. My mistake.

I'm not voting for him either.

[joshalabama]

I'll vote for him if Hillary or Edwards is vice. I really don't like Mccain, but I think I just need to vote whoever is going to do the best with our economy. We really need to focus on soveregnty.

[capitalcrew]

Hillary won't be vice president.

Edwards has a better shot. I hope he doesn't get it though, simply to take your vote away from Obama.

[SoCalZX2]

I'll vote for him if Hillary or Edwards is vice. I really don't like Mccain, but I think I just need to vote whoever is going to do the best with our economy. We really need to focus on soveregnty.

I really don't like socialism, or higher taxes, or big government lol.

[joshalabama]

I was going to vote Ron Paul...Kinda stuck with whatever works out now.

[SoCalZX2]

I agree. I liked a lot of Ron Pauls ideas. It's a shame most americans are looking to washington to solve their problems. Self accountability just doesn't exist anymore.

[joshalabama]

Agreed..

[TheCrazyGuy]

The reactions of the people in the background at Hillary's rallies TERRIFIES me. Cheering after every complete sentence she utters like speaking is laudable accomplishment. I really feel that on Saturday when she conceded at least five or six of those people slit their wrists.

[autox_zx2]

i shut this shit off after they say how "shocking" it is that our next president may have NOT 1, NOT 2, BUT 3 Islamic names!!!! z0mg!!!!! Seriously, how can anyone take this vid's credibility seriously after a blatantly prejudice "point."

[joshalabama]

i shut this shit off after they say how "shocking" it is that our next president may have NOT 1, NOT 2, BUT 3 Islamic names!!!! z0mg!!!!! Seriously, how can anyone take this vid's credibility seriously after a blatantly prejudice "point."

It is really annoying. They always do the same thing.

[autox_zx2]

seriously, if the media was like "i dont know if we should have a black president...." people would flip. I'm sorry, I'm just not racist, also my best friend happens to be an islamic middle eastern, oh, and for some odd reason he's not a terrorist.......

[capitalcrew]

I said some points were moot and hollow. You should have been ready for that when you opened it.

[PHeller]

I really don't like socialism, or higher taxes, or big government lol.

You can either get that by programs designed to help American, or you can get that by programs designed to help American Interests.

Keep the money at home, that's all I care about.

[phosphite]

If half of the information has been skewed horribly and you know this, why even bother to post this? In that case unless you're ready try to guess what's fact and fiction, the whole video is a waste of time. What a useless post in this section. 9/11 conspiracy videos would be better than this.

[af3ll]

I'm going to have to agree. I don't support either one but that video was a crock.

[capitalcrew]

If half of the information has been skewed horribly and you know this, why even bother to post this? In that case unless you're ready try to guess what's fact and fiction, the whole video is a waste of time. What a useless post in this section. 9/11 conspiracy videos would be better than this.

Because I didn't think I'd have people like you hopping onto my dick. I posted it so the video could be discussed, not my means for posting it.

[phosphite]

Waste of time. You should know better than to post rubbish, and shouldn't be surprised when people crap all over you because of it. /THREAD

[capitalcrew]

Then stop posting here and wasting your time.

[ZetecInside]

It's sad that there are still enough toothless hicks in this country to make a presidential candidate's "Islamic-sounding name" an actual political topic point that is taken seriously in certain mainstream circles.


The people who are worried about "Islamic influence" in an Obama administration are the same type of alarmist morons who thought the Pope would be running America when JFK got elected because of his Catholic background. Actually, they're much dumber, because Obama isn't even a Muslim.

[JonsZX2SR]

What is scary is that some people fear that if a militant Islamic 'Obama' (as opposed to the real guy) were elected president, he'd replace everyone in gov't with Islamic supporters, in Congress, in Cabinet, in the Pentagon, the Supreme Court, the Federal Reserve, etc.

Considering that whoever becomes president still needs to get appointments approved the chances of all of the above happening is somewhere around zero.

Unfortunately, ignorant people have ignorant ideas and you just can't have a reasonable debate or shown them how they are wrong. You are going to get videos like this from uninformed sources every so often.

[ImCrazy]

A) its a fucking joke when people mention his names as an issue its a weak argument.

[ImCrazy]

It's sad that there are still enough toothless hicks in this country to make a presidential candidate's "Islamic-sounding name" an actual political topic point that is taken seriously in certain mainstream circles.


The people who are worried about "Islamic influence" in an Obama administration are the same type of alarmist morons who thought the Pope would be running America when JFK got elected because of his Catholic background. Actually, they're much dumber, because Obama isn't even a Muslim.

true that.

[ImCrazy]

I don't even wanna know who made this video they probably barely graduated highschool

America needs drastic change not some old codger for our next president.

[ImCrazy]

If half of the information has been skewed horribly and you know this, why even bother to post this? In that case unless you're ready try to guess what's fact and fiction, the whole video is a waste of time. What a useless post in this section. 9/11 conspiracy videos would be better than this.

it further demonstrates the extents the lengths that conservatives know they have to goto in skewing the truth to give McCain a chance.

At least when Obama gets elected most of those degenerates who are against him for his "name" will reap the benefits of a president whos for the working class.

[capitalcrew]

So it isn't an interesting point that he didn't vote yes or no on many things. It isn't an interesting point that he won't even pledge allegiance to his country? He can't evern make the argument of not wanting to say under God because he believes in God.

If any of you want to talk about nutty people listening to rediculous shit, look at the church Obama has attended for 20 years.

[SoCalZX2]

it further demonstrates the extents the lengths that conservatives know they have to goto in skewing the truth to give McCain a chance.

At least when Obama gets elected most of those degenerates who are against him for his "name" will reap the benefits of a president whos for the working class.

We all will when he moves in more socialist programs that require higher taxes. I don't give a crap about his name, and I realize that the USA needs some changes, but bigger government is NOT a good change for the people of this country.

[ImCrazy]

So it isn't an interesting point that he didn't vote yes or no on many things. It isn't an interesting point that he won't even pledge allegiance to his country? He can't evern make the argument of not wanting to say under God because he believes in God.

If any of you want to talk about nutty people listening to rediculous shit, look at the church Obama has attended for 20 years.

Y'all need to stop grasping for straws its pathetic

Some things aren't worthy of a vote hes entitled to his opinion maybe he was making a point that the issues raised weren't ready for a vote.

:satannana:

[ImCrazy]

We all will when he moves in more socialist programs that require higher taxes. I don't give a crap about his name, and I realize that the USA needs some changes, but bigger government is NOT a good change for the people of this country.

LOL you people crack me up seriously I just LOL'ed for real.

The Rich should pay more Tax. End of story if you make 1mill a year you should pay 10x More than the guy making 100k a year and so on.

[SoCalZX2]

Making a comment about what church he attended and the doctrine he's believed in for so long is less like grasping at straws then trying to justify him not having on opinion on issues lol.

[ImCrazy]

I'm not even going into taxes but maybe just some universal health care, were the richest nation in the world and one of the most advanced (amazingly so concidering the bush administration) but we don't have health care for every man woman and child whats wrong with this picture?

McCain is not capable of change so the best choice is Obama.

[ImCrazy]

Making a comment about what church he attended and the doctrine he's believed in for so long is less like grasping at straws then trying to justify him not having on opinion on issues lol.

Lol no thats just common sense if I think something isn't worthy of my vote i don't cast it there are issues on every ballot that I don't vote for.

[SoCalZX2]

LOL you people crack me up seriously I just LOL'ed for real.

The Rich should pay more Tax. End of story if you make 1mill a year you should pay 10x More than the guy making 100k a year and so on.

WHY?!?! How the hell is that fair? Just because I know what to do with my money and how to make it work for me means I should be taxed out the wazzou?

Why not get rid of welfare and other big government ideas and make people learn how to live within their means... You have no clue how money works if you think higher wage earners should be forced to pay abnormal amounts of taxes just because they didn't fuck themselves financially or because they weren't too lazy to actually succeed.

If you didn't know this, the top 5% of income earners pay 35% of the overall taxes paid each year. Thats stupid... Thats being FORCED to help people that are too lazy to help themselves. (Yes there are some legitimate cases for welfare and disability, but you can't deny that there are more people abusing the system to skate by vs those that actually need the assistance).

I'm all about helping people succeed, but I'll be damned if I should be FORCED to just because some people are too lazy to push themselves to succeed. That is NOT what America was built to do. You want that style of Gov't, then move, because I don't want to be told how to spend my money, or save / invest my money.

[SoCalZX2]

I'm not even going into taxes but maybe just some universal health care, were the richest nation in the world and one of the most advanced (amazingly so concidering the bush administration) but we don't have health care for every man woman and child whats wrong with this picture?

McCain is not capable of change so the best choice is Obama.

BS! Universal healthcare will kill this country financially. I'm sorry if you believed that BS "documentary" about socialist healhcare.... Michale Moore is an IDIOT and doesn't portray things in an objective manner.

Socialist healthcare is not an answer. Teaching EVERYONE financial responsibility and delayed gratification IS an answer. But self accountability doesn't exist in this culture anymore.

[SoCalZX2]

Lol no thats just common sense if I think something isn't worthy of my vote i don't cast it there are issues on every ballot that I don't vote for.

As a single voter you have that ability, but I would believe that an elected official (who was elected to be the voice of the people) should have an opinion on items. Thats just my opinion though. It'd be interesting to see what he chose not to have an opinion on though.

[ZetecInside]

It isn't an interesting point that he won't even pledge allegiance to his country?

What the hell are you talking about?

[SoCalZX2]

I think he's commenting on not wearing the American Flag pin and the fact that he won't cover his heart during the pledge. While the video is skewed, and I'm sure quite a bit was taken out of context, you can't deny those two.

[ZetecInside]

I think he's commenting on not wearing the American Flag pin and the fact that he won't cover his heart during the pledge. While the video is skewed, and I'm sure quite a bit was taken out of context, you can't deny those two.



http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp


http://texbetsy.headonradionetwork.com/files/2008/02/obama-hand.jpg

http://texbetsy.headonradionetwork.com/files/2008/02/barack-hand.jpg

http://www.moonbattery.com/obama-flag-pin.jpg




Fail.

[SoCalZX2]

Cool. Thats a bit more comforting, but you can't deny that at some point he didn't.

It's kind of akin to the fact that he left the church only after it was starting to shine a negative shadow on his campaign. Has he started covering his heart to show better?

We'll never know his motives.

By the way, enough with the "fail" crap.. it was cute and clever when it first came out, now it's just dumb.

[ZetecInside]

Cool. Thats a bit more comforting, but you can't deny that at some point he didn't.

He has explained his position on the anthem/heart thing numerous times. Sometimes he does it, sometimes he just respectfully observes with his hands folded in front of him. As long as he respectfully acknowledges the flag in some way, no one should really give a shit.

As far as the flag pin thing: When did flag pins become part of the "uniform" of all American elected officials? Has this country become so jingoistic that anyone without an American flag somewhere on their clothing at all times needs to have their patriotism questioned? Just because someone isn't walking around screaming "I love America" at the top of their lungs every 5 seconds doesn't make them an Al Qaeda operative. Give it a rest already, people. This ridiculous flag pin "controversy" is childish, idiotic, pointless, and distracting from real political issues. Obama needs to prove his qualifications as president. He doesn't need to prove his patriotism by wearing a 2 dollar piece of painted tin on his lapel at every public event he attends.


It's kind of akin to the fact that he left the church only after it was starting to shine a negative shadow on his campaign. Has he started covering his heart to show better?

I don't know the exact dates of those photographs, but I've definitely seen them before the Wright controversy broke out. He didn't just "start" covering his heart because of the controversy.

I agree that his abandonment of the Trinity church was political opportunism, but so was his joining the church in the first place. The Trinity church is a powerful political tool in Chicago, especially among black voters. He was just cozying up to the religious crowd for votes, just like any politician does. And McCain's association with Rev John Hagee is equally troubling.

We'll never know his motives.

His motives, like most politicians, are probably a genuine desire to effect positive change for his country. His methods of doing so are open to debate (I personally don't agree with most of his platform myself), but that doesn't mean he doesn't genuinely love his country.

By the way, enough with the "fail" crap.. it was cute and clever when it first came out, now it's just dumb.

No, it's still funny. You're just bitter that you ended up on the losing end of it this time :D

[SoCalZX2]

No, it's still funny. You're just bitter that you ended up on the losing end of it this time :D

Actually, no I'm not :D It's pretty stupid. I've never used it nor would I because it's pretty freakin' dumb.

Thank you for the proof otherwise. Personally I don't like his stance on some stuff he'd like to do, but was shocked when seeing some stuff w/o him doing the symbolism thing.

[phosphite]

^^ Omg Pwn3d!! Wtf! Lmao Epic Fail!

[SoCalZX2]

^^ Omg Pwn3d!! Wtf! Lmao Epic Fail!

Wow, that was great addition to the thread :D

[ImCrazy]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp


http://texbetsy.headonradionetwork.com/files/2008/02/obama-hand.jpg

http://texbetsy.headonradionetwork.com/files/2008/02/barack-hand.jpg

http://www.moonbattery.com/obama-flag-pin.jpg




Fail.


OWNED

fucking idiots who make those videos just strengthen Barrack's already strong campaign

[powder]

LOL you people crack me up seriously I just LOL'ed for real.

The Rich should pay more Tax. End of story if you make 1mill a year you should pay 10x More than the guy making 100k a year and so on.

So are you talking about raising tax rates, or are you just bad at math. Cuz that's basic math. If i pay 25% of my wage and i make 100k/year i am paying 1/10th of what a guy who makes a million a year pays... you understand this right? 100k x 10 = 1 million. 100k/.25 = 25k. 25k x 10 = 250k. 250k/1 million = .25 = 25%. Well, that and more happens dude. Like SoCal said, the rich get taxed out the ass at around 35% while people who make less than 75k/yr are in the 20% range. I don't see how you think this is fair.

I'm not even going into taxes but maybe just some universal health care, were the richest nation in the world and one of the most advanced (amazingly so concidering the bush administration) but we don't have health care for every man woman and child whats wrong with this picture?

McCain is not capable of change so the best choice is Obama.

You're joking right? This include illegal immigrants too? While we're at it why don't we just make the primary language and all the street signs in fucking Spanish? Good idea right? NO. It's not my job to pay for the medicare of those who can't get their own insurance.

I have a better idea... lets take the money i pay in taxes and send those people back to their own country and enhance border patrol and security.

[ImCrazy]

So are you talking about raising tax rates, or are you just bad at math. Cuz that's basic math. If i pay 25% of my wage and i make 100k/year i am paying 1/10th of what a guy who makes a million a year pays... you understand this right? 100k x 10 = 1 million. 100k/.25 = 25k. 25k x 10 = 250k. 250k/1 million = .25 = 25%. Well, that and more happens dude. Like SoCal said, the rich get taxed out the ass at around 35% while people who make less than 75k/yr are in the 20% range. I don't see how you think this is fair.



You're joking right? This include illegal immigrants too? While we're at it why don't we just make the primary language and all the street signs in fucking Spanish? Good idea right? NO. It's not my job to pay for the medicare of those who can't get their own insurance.

I have a better idea... lets take the money i pay in taxes and send those people back to their own country and enhance border patrol and security.

My point about taxes is that rich should pay more because they don't need to excess money their basic needs are met, granted it has to be at a rate where it is still worth it to work harder or become more educated.

No Illegals should get any free treatment or any benefits I don't like the USA's Immigration policy I think if you wanna come here you should apply to do so legally and then we should allow a limited amount of people in.

I agree that we should send all illegals back and almost all immigrants from the middle east truthfully.

[capitalcrew]

No one should have to pay more taxes because they make more money. If some one works and earns something then they should be able to enjoy it. This is coming from some one who grew up on a farm who doesn't have shit, so don't say I am just trying to keep my money.

I don't like socialized health care. I don't want to pay for some one else's health care, they should be able to do it themselves. Older people are the only people who maybe deserve any aid with that, but even then, they should have done better preparing their retirement. Capable people complain about not being able to find a job all of the time and it drives me nuts. Farms everywhere are dying for more people to work yet people run around saying that they can't find a job anywhere. Bullshit, you're lazy and like being on unemployment.

All illegal immigrants need to be send the hell home. If you cross the border illegally you should get a bullet to the face.

[powder]

Well what you're talking about doing w/ health care will open it up to illegals too. They have health care as we speak, actually.

To tell you the truth, i look at illegals and the poor the same way. Unwilling to do anything to better their situation. So why should i pay for their health care again when i earn every penny i make?

[ImCrazy]

Well what you're talking about doing w/ health care will open it up to illegals too. They have health care as we speak, actually.

To tell you the truth, i look at illegals and the poor the same way. Unwilling to do anything to better their situation. So why should i pay for their health care again when i earn every penny i make?

Some poor people can't do any better. They shouldn't have free care..... we should just not let them in.

The health care should cover all tax paying citizens.

[capitalcrew]

Not all American citizens pay taxes. Children don't pay taxes, the homeless don't pay taxes.. Make up your mind with this health care idea of yours.

[ImCrazy]

Maybe health care hits home for me since my dad busted his ass for all his life in the building trades then when the industry went south and he struggled for work then on top of it went into debt for a year of health care for our family at a cost of 16k dollars yeah maybe i think the health care system is a bit fucked up. He could have dropped the insurance sure but he made too much more than 30k but less than 50k a year for us to qualify for welfare type health care and both him and my mom have health issues that they cannot be without insurance and their too young to qualify for health care for "old" people. So yeah I think the system is fucked.

Best system IMO would be one where you can get affordable government subsidized insurance for your family. Not free but the gov't should either put a cap on what docs can charge for medical work or offer some affordable insurance plans for everyone cause its insane what health care costs.

[ImCrazy]

Not all American citizens pay taxes. Children don't pay taxes, the homeless don't pay taxes.. Make up your mind with this health care idea of yours.

Children's families pay taxes, homeless will always need assistance. However homeless should be given a chance for a job and to make something of their life more than anything.

[powder]

Some poor people can't do any better. They shouldn't have free care..... we should just not let them in.

The health care should cover all tax paying citizens.

I agree, but that's not how it works right now... and that won't be how it works w/ socialized health care.

[capitalcrew]

Put a cap on charges for medical treatment? There goes the quality of health care. Sure fire way to eliminate incentive.

I'm sorry to hear about the hardships of your family, but everyone has hardships. It happens. Always have a backup plan.

[capitalcrew]

FYI, if any homeless man came to our farm looking for work and was sober, he would get work. He could work all day every day. Every farm around here is like that. If you want to work, good, you can work.

The homeless just don't care.

[powder]

My friend used to take the bus to and from work every day cuz it was convenient and cheap. One day he was on the bus and there were 2 homeless guys talking in muffled voices. He barely overheard what they were saying and it was to the effect of "How much did you make today? $125 bucks? Wow, that's good considering you were only there for like 3 hrs."

Then the same guy who was talking got off the bus, and walked into the Walmart parking lot and jumped in his Acura TL.

I don't care about the homeless, they're making out on our account.

[JonsZX2SR]

LOL you people crack me up seriously I just LOL'ed for real.

The Rich should pay more Tax. End of story if you make 1mill a year you should pay 10x More than the guy making 100k a year and so on.

...and if you knew how graduated taxes work, you would realize the guy making $1million is paying the same amount of tax on the increment of taxable income as the first guy and probably at a higher rate on everything above the taxable income of the first guy.

For example, assume after exemptions, deferred income and deductions the guy making $100K actually has a taxable income of $78,000 and is single. His federal tax (from the tax tables) on this income is $15,958. His effective tax rate vs. gross income is 15.958%

Now lets say the guy making $1million is also single and has a taxable income after exemptions, deductions and deferred income of $772,000. He pays the same $15,958 on the first $78,000. On the additional $694,000 that takes him to $772,000 he pays another $226,693 in takes for a total of $242,651 in takes.

His effective tax rate on the $1million is 24.265%

So rather than paying 10X taxes on 10X of gross income, the guy making $1million is actually paying 15.2X as much in taxes.

Where people get confused is wealthy people do get to subtract significant losses from investment income. However, losses are losses. Also long term capital gains are taxed at a 15% rate no matter how large they are. However, earned income to $31,850 is taxed at 15% and at 25% from $31850 to $77,100.

Someone with with no earned income and $1million in taxable capital gains (from a trust fund for example) is going to pay only 15% or $150,000 in taxes. However, this is slightly more than 10X than the guy earning $100K. Also besides being taxed at a 15% flat rate it is generally more difficult to take personal deductions against long term capital income.

People who complain the wealthy don't pay enough taxes usually don't understand graduated taxation and are whining about nothing. If you offered a typical guy making $1million to pay only 10X the taxes of someone making $100K they'd probably agree, because it would reduce their taxes.

If anyone wants to discuss this they need todo their homework first. There are all kinds of shelters and investment funds that help the wealthy reduce taxes, but the average person would be surprised how much people with large incomes pay in taxes.

[PHeller]

A simple way to reduce health care costs would be allowing you to buy coverage across state lines. This whole idea that you've got to buy from a provider within your area is BS. This allows companies to charge higher rates in area because they believe that area is dominated by wealthy customers, and then everyone else gets crapped on.

Personally, I don't see why health insurance is more expensive than car insurance.

For example, if my car costs $20,000 dollars new, I'm paying what, $1000, maybe $1500 in insurance?

In the event my car is wrecked, I get $20,000, no questions asked.

I think the likelihood that someone racks up a $20,000 medical bill every 5 years is pretty slim, yet those better quality health care plans are charging $150 per month!

[capitalcrew]

If you're sick, crash your car. :shrug:

[JonsZX2SR]

I don't wear a flag pin (or pins of any sort.) Does that make me unamerican ?? I would argue that understanding, speaking up for and supporting the US constitution is more important than wearing a flag pin.

What scares me more is that a significant portion of people who wear flag pins have never read the US constitution and could not discuss it intelligently.

[ImCrazy]

If you're sick, crash your car. :shrug:

works real well when your having a heart attack.

Health cares over priced doctors don't deserve the pay some of them get.

FYI you really show ur age sometimes dude.

[capitalcrew]

It was a joke. Chill out. Keep your personal insults to yourself, I'm trying to at least keep it mildly light aired in here.

[ImCrazy]

It was a joke. Chill out. Keep your personal insults to yourself, I'm trying to at least keep it mildly light aired in here.

I have made no personal insults.

[TheCrazyGuy]

LOL you people crack me up seriously I just LOL'ed for real.

The Rich should pay more Tax. End of story if you make 1mill a year you should pay 10x More than the guy making 100k a year and so on.


YOU crack Me up. If you make 1 million dollars a year, you pay over 103k of your earnings, plus 35% of anything that you make over 357,700 (224805). A guy making 100 k a year pays only 16k, plus only 25% of anything over that 78,850 (5287.50).

The bottom line? 100k guy pays 21,287.50 while 1 mil guy pays 327,805, fifteen times more than the first guy. Fail.

Like Jon said, you should educate yourself before you try to formulate your opinions, particularly ones that you hold so fiercely and vehemently.

[TheGreatGatsby]

Health insurance is so high to make up for what is lost in car insurance, i just took a class and in Iowa... 11.7 billing is collected for auto insurance, 117 billion is paid off a year from insurance company's for auto collisions. Insurance companys need to make up this deficit somewhere so thay raise the prize on something else that doesn't get used as much... like house, health, and property insurance.

[ImCrazy]

YOU crack Me up. If you make 1 million dollars a year, you pay over 103k of your earnings, plus 35% of anything that you make over 357,700 (224805). A guy making 100 k a year pays only 16k, plus only 25% of anything over that 78,850 (5287.50).

The bottom line? 100k guy pays 21,287.50 while 1 mil guy pays 327,805, fifteen times more than the first guy. Fail.

Like Jon said, you should educate yourself before you try to formulate your opinions, particularly ones that you hold so fiercely and vehemently.

Big deal, I'm not really concerned with the numbers I don't understand how taxes work but thanks for the education. I'm not an accountant.

My point still is that those who make more should be taxed higher. :run:

[powder]

Big deal, I'm not really concerned with the numbers I don't understand how taxes work but thanks for the education. I'm not an accountant.

My point still is that those who make more should be taxed higher. :run:

:eyes:

[SoCalZX2]

Big deal, I'm not really concerned with the numbers I don't understand how taxes work but thanks for the education. I'm not an accountant.

My point still is that those who make more should be taxed higher. :run:

AKA I just got proven wrong and still don't have any clue how money works.

Fact is you say that because you don't have that kind of income. You apparently can't fathom being wealthy, and there for the wealthy are supposed to foot the bill for everyone else.

My goal is to have 3mil+ in retirement by the time I'm 60... That will give me, if I live off just 8% a year an annual income of well over 200k a year... Pre-tax it'll be around 20k month.

Now, why, if I've been wise in my younger years and invested long term and bettered myself and pushed myself to succeed, should I be FORCED by higher taxes and corrupt government programs to take care of those that are lazy? Those that didn't push to make themselves better, those that didn't push to succeed. My wife and I will most definitely be generous with out wealth helping those that NEED help. But those that are just too lazy to succeed have no need and shouldn't have access to our wealth.

Tell me how that makes sense?

[ImCrazy]

AKA I just got proven wrong and still don't have any clue how money works.

Fact is you say that because you don't have that kind of income. You apparently can't fathom being wealthy, and there for the wealthy are supposed to foot the bill for everyone else.

My goal is to have 3mil+ in retirement by the time I'm 60... That will give me, if I live off just 8% a year an annual income of well over 200k a year... Pre-tax it'll be around 20k month.

Now, why, if I've been wise in my younger years and invested long term and bettered myself and pushed myself to succeed, should I be FORCED by higher taxes and corrupt government programs to take care of those that are lazy? Those that didn't push to make themselves better, those that didn't push to succeed. My wife and I will most definitely be generous with out wealth helping those that NEED help. But those that are just too lazy to succeed have no need and shouldn't have access to our wealth.

Tell me how that makes sense?


Lol i know how money works don't even tell me shit dude I'm about to graduate from business school. Taxes I have no clue about. You think your so much better than everyone well ive got news for you were all born the same we all die the same we all make choices you make your choices that are right for you but there not "better" than anyone elses choices just better for your personal goals. You don't have much compassion for the human condition do you?




I am also going to save money and give myself enough to live on for retirement by the time I am 65.

Not everyone has equal opportunities and not everyone wants to work their ass off thats fine.

However I can't feel good knowing that there are people who can't get health care for a reasonable price.

[ImCrazy]

Part of the problem with taxes is they are too complicated just make a flat tax.

If the middle class has more money or pays less tax they will spend that money more because they have things they "need" that would increase their quality of life people making huge dollars 500k plus are just buying dumb shit that no one needs.

[TheCrazyGuy]

My point still is that those who make more should be taxed higher. :run:

And my only point was that they are.

[TheCrazyGuy]

Part of the problem with taxes is they are too complicated just make a flat tax.

If the middle class has more money or pays less tax they will spend that money more because they have things they "need" that would increase their quality of life people making huge dollars 500k plus are just buying dumb shit that no one needs.


Wait, what? Doesn't somebody that took the time to get the education required to get a 500k job, are doing a profession that is worth 500k to society, and sacrificing the time and effort taken to make 500k deserve to decide if the shit they buy is dumb and / or needed? Cuz I guarantee that if I ever find a job that makes 500k I'm sure as hell not going to have the time to hang out in the Politics and Religion section of TeamZX2.com. I'll be too busy working and doing donuts in my dumb unneeded Ferrari.

[powder]

Part of the problem with taxes is they are too complicated just make a flat tax.

If the middle class has more money or pays less tax they will spend that money more because they have things they "need" that would increase their quality of life people making huge dollars 500k plus are just buying dumb shit that no one needs.

I'm middle class and i could tell you i don't need a wrx. You don't need a ZX2 or any of the mods you do to it.

The rich worked hard for their money in most cases and deserve to spend it how they see fit. Whether you see it as dumb or not is irrelevant.

Your point of view is so skewed w/ little to no facts it makes ME laugh.

[ImCrazy]

I'm done with this for two reasons:

I'm sick of the circle jerk of political debates on teamzx2

I respect/like some of the members who I'm disagreeing.

[powder]

You call this a debate? lol

Debates have facts. The numbers have been brought to the table and you just don't want to hear it. You have yet to give a good reason why the rich should pay more just cuz they make more and why they shouldn't spend THEIR money on whatever the hell they want to.

I think you're a good guy, but when it comes to facts you just don't have them straight in this case. I'm not basing my personal opinion of you on a political conversation. I don't see why you would either. Opinions are like assholes.

[SoCalZX2]

Lol i know how money works don't even tell me shit dude I'm about to graduate from business school. Taxes I have no clue about. You think your so much better than everyone well ive got news for you were all born the same we all die the same we all make choices you make your choices that are right for you but there not "better" than anyone elses choices just better for your personal goals. You don't have much compassion for the human condition do you?




I am also going to save money and give myself enough to live on for retirement by the time I am 65.

Not everyone has equal opportunities and not everyone wants to work their ass off thats fine.

However I can't feel good knowing that there are people who can't get health care for a reasonable price.

I'd really like to know how you came to those two conclusions about me as a person. When have I EVER stated I'm better than ANYONE? When have I shown a lack of compassion to people or their problems?

Comments like "not everyone wants to work their ass off thats fine" is a ridiculous argument as to why people with wealth should be taxed higher to cover for those that aren't willing to work hard.

I don't disagree that this nations healthcare is jacked up, but guess what, a big government healthcare plan ISN'T going to fix the problems. Find a way to bring cost of healthcare down, not give the government more control in your daily life.

[powder]

I, however, do have a lack of compassion for people unwilling to help themselves.

[SoCalZX2]

I, however, do have a lack of compassion for people unwilling to help themselves.

The underlying point of my whole post and problem with government programs (I.E. Welfare, Social inSecurity, proposed national health care).

[JessicaOfVA]

I don't wear a flag pin (or pins of any sort.) Does that make me unamerican ?? I would argue that understanding, speaking up for and supporting the US constitution is more important than wearing a flag pin.

What scares me more is that a significant portion of people who wear flag pins have never read the US constitution and could not discuss it intelligently.

I don't see why someone should understand the constitution in order to wear a flag pin. If a person enjoys living in this country and wants to show their support by wearing a flag pin, then more power to them. I don't think you should have to understand government in order to show your pride for your country.

At the same time, I don't care if Obama wears a flag pin either. I don't wear pins most of the time or put magnets or stickers on my car. That doesn't mean I don't support those causes. I've donated regularly to the SPCA, but I don't wear a pin or anything to prove to everyone that I support them. There's more that I disagree with Obama over, to get upset over a silly pin.

[ZetecInside]

I don't see why someone should understand the constitution in order to wear a flag pin. If a person enjoys living in this country and wants to show their support by wearing a flag pin, then more power to them. I don't think you should have to understand government in order to show your pride for your country.


The Constitution outlines both this country's system of laws, and its fundamental civic values. If you don't have a basic understanding of the Constitution, then you don't even really know what you're supporting by wearing a flag pin.

[autox_zx2]

The Constitution outlines both this country's system of laws, and its fundamental civic values. If you don't have a basic understanding of the Constitution, then you don't even really know what you're supporting by wearing a flag pin.


QFT. I actually have read word for word probably 3/4 of the constitution (lol, poli-sci 104 in college) so am i allowed to wear 3/4 of an American flag pin? jk dude, but ya i agree w/ ur's and jon's ideas here.

[JonsZX2SR]

The point is anyone can wear a flag pin, regardless of how much or little they understand about how our country works. So Obama doesn't wear a flag pin, so what ??

He more than likely understands the constitution and workings of the gov't better than 90% of the people who do wear flag pins ?? Having been elected and served in public office, he cares at some level about governing. I'd be more concerned about people who wear flag pins who have absolutely no idea about how our gov't works.

[JessicaOfVA]

The Constitution outlines both this country's system of laws, and its fundamental civic values. If you don't have a basic understanding of the Constitution, then you don't even really know what you're supporting by wearing a flag pin.

I know what the Constitution is. I'm just saying that I don't have a problem with people who don't understand it showing their pride for our country. Those people might not understand the constitution or how the government works, but they appreciate the lives they live by living in this country. They can watch the news and see what's going on in other countries and be thankful that they're not going through that themselves.

[JonsZX2SR]

But you equate wearing a flag pin with having pride for our country. There are plenty of people who don't wear flag pins who do a lot for and care about our country and plenty of people who wear flag pins who just care about themselves.

It's more important to focus on a persons actions, than whether or not they wear some kind of pin. Making a big deal about whether someone wears a pin of any sort is incredibly petty. One of the reasons this country is in trouble is people make too much of an issue about small stuff and don't focus on what's important.

I don't wear a flag pin. Does that make me unamerican or uncaring about our nation ??

[JessicaOfVA]

But you equate wearing a flag pin with having pride for our country. There are plenty of people who don't wear flag pins who do a lot for and care about our country and plenty of people who wear flag pins who just care about themselves.

It's more important to focus on a persons actions, than whether or not they wear some kind of pin. Making a big deal about whether someone wears a pin of any sort is incredibly petty. One of the reasons this country is in trouble is people make too much of an issue about small stuff and don't focus on what's important.

I don't wear a flag pin. Does that make me unamerican or uncaring about our nation ??

I don't know if you're directing that question at me or not. But if you are... I wish you would go back and read my full posts. I said that I don't care if someone wears one or not, including Obama. I agreed that it was dumb to make a big deal out of something so insignificant.


So to sum up, in case there are any misunderstandings as to what I'm trying to say....... If you want to wear a flag pin, then good for you... If you don't want to wear a flag pin, then that's fine it's your choice.

[PHeller]

Sometimes personal responsbility also comes down to helping people help themselves.

In the case of cheaper health care (notice i don't say universal), its needed not because we want to give hand outs, but because millions of American go into debt trying to pay for health care.

Welfare was originally designed as added supliment to unemployment pay, and we know unemployment pay is neccisary to keep a economy thriving in downturns.

However, I think we need better managment of those people who recieve unemployment and welfare benefits. Why? I know hardworking people who lost their jobs, collected unemployment, and did nothing for 6 months while driving a gas guzzler and eating out all the time. That to me is a waste of tax money. Perfectly employable people taking breaks off getting paid $20 an hour to do nothing. Yes, I know its the businesses that pay the tax money into Unemployment, and it should be their fault for cutting jobs, but some people really abuse the system.

We need some way of monitoring what people buy while they are on these programs. Something better than foodstamps. Maybe a Welfare Debit Cards that only work at certain locations, for a certain amount of gas, with correct photo ID to match. Then, a social security worker (which would provide jobs for the rest of us) would review reciepts from purchases, and if the owner didn't provide a reciept, they get that much less for next week.

If and when they run out of money, and are unable to support their children, their children go into foster care, and they get put into a required work plan.

I really do think some people in our nation need to be forced to work, especially those that have 5 kids and don't pay a dime to take care of any them. BS. Time to pay up suckers.

[JonsZX2SR]

I don't know if you're directing that question at me or not.

It's not directed at you. It's a barb directed toward anyone who tried to make wearing a flag pin a bigger deal than it is. There were a few people who made such a big deal over this that they missed the big picture, how a person feels for their country.