i'm done with it, i'm getting rid of the stupid thing

[zxtwou2]

10th in PAX, 13th in raw...and the whole time i was sideways. i put on some stickers....Hankook z214s in the C71 compound. they. are. epic. problem is, i am still running the same setup i was on the black car. stock struts with 450 front, 325 rear spring rates, 21mm bar, 100 treadwear Toyo RA1s on back....all of those to induce more rotation. well...now i have waaaay too much rotation. solution, get C71 compounds in back. problem, no money. temporary fix for the next race....ditch the rear sway bar.

you heard me right...i'm going to be autoXing without a rear swaybar at all! let's see what happens...stay tuned :D

[99fordzx2]

Lol your crazy man! Why is it you never post vidz of your runs for us to enjoi!


-D

[blue99fordzx2]

is it common for people to do that with the autox or unheard of?

[zxtwou2]

it's not unheard of believe it or not...because in a FWD car, it's pretty easy to lift the inside rear wheel in a corner. once that wheel is in the air, it's not doing you any good. most of the guys that run bar-less are hondas with double-wishbones, though. not many McStrut cars do it....so we'll see how it goes.

as for vids, my GoPro camera got smashed when it flew off Dan's S/R at Coles County Airport last year. the only vids i have on the track are from middle of last year or older. maybe someday i'll pony up another 300 bucks and get the HD one this time.

[blue99fordzx2]

ya ive seen "that wheel in the air" on photos across the interwebz before, didnt realize it was common place to remove the rsb though. makes some sense though.

[zxtwou2]

a dude at the race today got this vid of me from far away: http://youtu.be/hlT1OHprLPc

[madmatt2024]

I would try the stock 13mm before I would get rid of the thing all together.

[zxtwou2]

nah, it's bad enough, i want to ditch it completely. i'm getting power-on oversteer now because the front tires dig in so hard with the LSD, it's just throws the balance of the car off. i get sideways while steady on the throttle in sweepers...and my lift off oversteer is absolutely insane.

[zetec00]

nah, it's bad enough, i want to ditch it completely. i'm getting power-on oversteer now because the front tires dig in so hard with the LSD, it's just throws the balance of the car off. i get sideways while steady on the throttle in sweepers...and my lift off oversteer is absolutely insane.
Wow that is insane. You must be pushing pretty hard.

[carbonzx2]

yea, im in for videos

[iceracer]

That wheel in the air is not a problem. It indicates that end of the vehicle is experiencing a 100 % weight transfer and that the chassis is stiff enough. Porsche 911's are noted for lifting a front wheel with similar weight distribution ony in reverse.
However, I do see your point. Getting the roll couple sorted on a 60/40 weight distribution is difficult.
It will be intersting to see how your plan works out.
You might try playing with tire pressures also. Checked the toe on the rear lately ?
This is really weird and I have a feeling something is amiss.
I think you are right on the tire mix.

[zxtwou2]

it is weird..but everything i've done to the car is to get the back end to become loose. the spring rates are set where the suspension frequency is equal front and back, i have a 21mm rear bar, i run v710s up front and RA1s in back. honestly, the car would be brilliant with some fresh tires in the back that aren't 70 treadwear points different...especially when the treadwear on the front tires is only 30. so, because two new tires for the back will cost me 300 bucks, i'll see how taking the rear bar off does. it allow me to shift the roll center over further, since the swaybar is essentially making the independent quadralink suspension less independent.

as for rear toe, i've found you get the least amount of slip angle with 0 toe on the back...and i typically run 0.5 or 0.6 degrees toe out up front. camber is whatever stock is when lowered 2.5 inches...it's more than 0, but nearly the 4.2 degrees my front is capable of. right now, the front is at 3.6, and i was getting 150* on the outside shoulders with 120* on the inside....so i need to get back that 0.6* of camber i got rid of...but then my tires won't clear the struts...so spacers are in order :p

[iceracer]

You are correct about the tires.
On my SR I ran 2.5 + neg camber on the front with 0 toe. I didn't do much auto cross but on track days My Hoosiers would run 135-135-130 fronts. I had extra caster so I didn't need much more camber. Rear was as it came from the factory.
The worse part of more camber is the inside wheel loses grip. Of course you have a limited slip so it isn't as bad.

I found out about mixing tires by putting new tires on the front and worn tires on back then tried taking a corner in the rain.
This was on street tire no less. Did this three times until it finally sunk in.
Curious as to what happens without the rear bar.

[zxtwou2]

if i find it, i'll put up a video from under the car of my rear suspension at work...but keep in mind, it was with Falken RT-615 street tires, and they were all around, not mis-matched like i have now.

[STS-ZX2SR]

When we got our car it was on 440s and 375s or something like that--it was wicked loose...so, yeah, I feel your pain. The counter-intuitive solution was to stiffen the rear relative to the front. We then went to 550/375...still bad, then 550/440...was better, but still loose...then to 650/550 and was better yet. Now the car is generally a bit snug, even with a new custom 3-way 15/16" RSB.

This is last years video--early in the 650/550 setup, still on the 17's, and with a 22mm RSB...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wre-iHI0NtM&feature=related

You can see the inside rear just barely lift on several occasions--especially from the vantage on the 3rd run.

[FuquayZX2]

This is last years video--early in the 650/550 setup, still on the 17's, and with a 22mm RSB...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wre-iHI0NtM&feature=related



100% unrelated to the topic of this thread... I love the sound of your zx2 lol

[zxtwou2]

with my stock shocks, the back lifts quite frequently, and bounces a LOT. weight transfer even in bumpy sweepers might be my biggest issue. so, get rid of the sway bar, aleviate some of the lift in back and maybe keep it planted better. never thought i'd have uncontrollable oversteer in a FWD car.

[dareall]

with my stock shocks, the back lifts quite frequently, and bounces a LOT. weight transfer even in bumpy sweepers might be my biggest issue. so, get rid of the sway bar, aleviate some of the lift in back and maybe keep it planted better. never thought i'd have uncontrollable oversteer in a FWD car.

maybe it is time to change your sig :shrug:

[zxtwou2]

actually, the rear driver side tire is in the air in that pic :p once you have a wheel up, you don't need more bar...and that was with the 19mm bar!

[STS-ZX2SR]

We used to get a lot of bouncing as well; it's not gone but is much better. That is puzzling...I thought it was our car, not a ZX2 trait. Did you put poly bushings in the rear LCAs and trailing arms? We have not but just ordered some. Having the car loose *and* bouncy is frustrating as hell. If we can iron-out the bounce, I think we can work on increasing forward bite...that is where the Civics just shine--they get 'on throttle' much more quickly than we do.