electric water pump idea

[ravensguildassasin]

ok so i will post this here for now. i have had this idea for running this pump for a while. now i will see what you all have to say. it is from bat inc. (also known as british american transfer.) http://www.batinc.net/main.htm it is for a v6 contour but after all the reading i have done there is no reason that it will not work on the zx2. to see the info go to contour then engine. it is in pdf form. i will copy the info and post it soon.

[ravensguildassasin]

Electric Water Pump and Controller
Recently we have had a number of customers
question us about the feasibility of installing an
electric water pump on the Duratec V6 engine.
Some were interested in the 7-10 HP gain
associated with the removal of the standard
camshaft driven mechanical pump. Others were
looking for a way to simplify swapping in some
model years of the 3.0 V6 engine. After doing
some research based on what pumps have
proven reliable when installed on various types
of race engines in Europe (where electric water
pumps are commonly used) we can recommend
the following components. The water pump is
both light weight (2 lbs.) and compact in size
(5"x5"x3") with directional inlet/outlet fittings to
be inserted in the lower radiator hose. It is made
from durable Nylon and is a centrifugal design
with a 300-1300 gallon per hour flow rate
depending on voltage 4-14 V DC. The pump is
controlled remotely by a fully adjustable
microprocessor unit. The control unit uses a
thermo probe to sense temperature. Set the
controller to the desired temperature and it will
automatically adjust the rate of coolant flow by
regulating the voltage to the pump. Now the
water pump can supply coolant at a flow rate
based on temperature, independent of engine
RPM, which equates to more efficient cooling.
The pump can even be wired to run-on after hot
engine shut down reducing heat soak.
Electric Water Pump EWP1 $269.00
Pump Controller EWPC1 $165.00

[ravensguildassasin]

and here is the specs on the pump and controller.

Technical Specifications (Water Pump)
Operating Voltage 4V to 14.5V DC
Maximum Current 7.5A
Flow Rate 300-1300 gal/hr @ 13V DC
Operating Temp. -5 F to 270 F
Pump Design Clockwise centrifugal with
volute chamber
Motor Life 2000 hrs continuous
Pump Weight 2 Lbs
Pump Material Nylon 66
Maximum Pressure 50 psi
Hose Sizes 1 1/4" to 2"
Dimensions (HWD) 5" x 5" x 3"

Technical Specifications (Electric Control Unit)
Input Voltage 12V to 14.5V DC
Output Voltage 3V to 12V DC
Maximum Current 7.5A
Operating Temp. -5 F to 140 F
Controller Type Adjustable Microprocessor
Sensor Type Thermal Coolant Sensor
Controller Weight 10 oz.
Dimensions (HWD) 3 3/4" x 2 9/16" x 2"

[mechtech]

Why?

[ravensguildassasin]

why? because there has been several people on here that wanted to do this. the reasons vary but it remains the same on it works more efficiently. that's why .

[mechtech]

Or less efficiently...
We don't know since no one has done it and tested it under various conditions.

[Beodude123]

I thought somebody was going to swap one in... Inis perhaps?

I wonder if it would be worth it? You are going to have to use energy to move the water one way or the other. One is mechanical, the other is electrical, provided by the work on the alternator. What I'm trying to say is, I wonder if the alternator is a more efficient tool to supply the energy needed to move water?

[ravensguildassasin]

i would think so. but in my case the crank pulley would only be driving the alternator. that is one of the reasons i am doing this. the other is if this works like i think it will then the engine will be running very efficiently. but either way until i do this i wont know for sure.

[99fordzx2]

Good luck, Id like to see the finished product.



-D

[iceracer]

For nearly $500 it would have to do something good. Which I have my doubts. It almost sounds like the electric supercharger.

[99fordzx2]

In theory it sounds good to me. One less thing the crank has to move.



-D

[JonsZX2SR]

Both water pumps and hydraulic power steering pumps have the most output at peak rpm, not exactly where power is needed. So they are designed with a bypass that allows fluid to flow without doing work, but still causes parasitic losses.

This is one reason electric steering is becoming more common. Unless you are running flat out in top gear, output of a belt or cam driven water pump is wasted. A good two speed electric system would probably do a better job than the current approach.

Reliability is a concern, given that belt driven pumps rarely fail until they hit high mileage. still it is a good idea.

[ravensguildassasin]

thank you all for your input. i really appreciate it. my budget has been pushed back a bit. but i hope to do this within a few months. two months tops.

[Beodude123]

For nearly $500 it would have to do something good. Which I have my doubts. It almost sounds like the electric supercharger.


Cost aside, how is it comparable to an electric supercharger? Those things (as well all know) are useless, while having an electric water pump would be more efficient. You won't always need all the strength that the belted pump gives you, which would waste energy on spinning something unnecessarily. Cutting out the belt, and controlling it electronically would enable you to control how much water needs to flow.

You would get as much water flow as you would need. You would be able to run your thermo open more (maybe get a colder thermo), and run the pump a lot less than the belted system.

It makes sense to me anyways.

[zxtwou2]

if you use it to only pump as much water as you need...i can see it having a positive effect. but right now it's belt driven....it takes a mechanical force, turns it into another mechanical force with minimal efficiency loss. if you want to run an electric water pump, you are taking mechanical force...turning it into electromotive force...then turning that into mechanical force again. you will lose some of your efficiency each time you convert energy like that. so effectively, you'll lose any gains plus some realistically.

[TTFOWIA]

subscribed.

[iceracer]

That is what I am curious about. How many Watts does this pump draw ? Is there really a gain ?
Still for $500 I could find several things that will produce more power.

[ravensguildassasin]

well they say 9to15 hp gain with it. just like doing the p/s/ delete. it does not say the watts but it does say the amps.

[iceracer]

Like everybody selling something, they tend to exagerate.
So what are the Amps ? I can figure the watts from that.
Look at the size of the water pump impeller, think it takes 9HP to turn it ?

[ravensguildassasin]

ok all the info is in the first three post read it again please.

[JonsZX2SR]

Consider that 13.8V X 7.5A = 104W = 0.14 HP (746W = 1 HP)

This sounds undersized, I could see where a decent waterpump might need to sustain about 0.33-0.75 HP for extended periods. Consider the power requirements for a good home sump pump.

On the other hand with cavitation at high rpm I can see a water pump consuming 5-8HP with much of it wasted by trying to force too fast flow at high rpm.

I'd would guess a good electric waterpump might free up 5-7 HP at high rpm, and much less at 2000-3000 rpm where the belt driven pump is closer to it's design paramenters.

Similar gains might be had by replacing the hydraulic power steering pump. Imagine a clutch similar to the A/C pump clutch that shuts down the power steering pump above 50 mph whenever the car is in 4th or 5th gear (3 or O for an ATX.) ou could improve fuel economy by 3-4% or more.

[ravensguildassasin]

seee im mostly looking at the fuel economy of the water pump. the power gain is nice. but over all im looking at how to make it just the crank running the alternator.

[inis]

electric waterpump has been done on a zetec for sometime now. Not a plug n play, but a remote one.

[ravensguildassasin]

this one is a remote style one. it goes inline on the bottom radiator hose. sorry i don't have more info. but when it gets closer to time i will be calling b.a.t. to get all the info i need.

[inis]

http://kctuners.org/forum/uploads/1214023902/gallery_2_40_101579.jpg

http://kctuners.org/forum/uploads/1214023902/gallery_2_40_141007.jpg

[ravensguildassasin]

that is really similar to where i will be putting mine when i get it. what car is that by the way very clean.

[Psychotuner]

1

[inis]

its a ford orion mk2

[iceracer]

So, lets see. The pump draws 104 Watts, the Alternator puts out 95 W. max. Hmm.

[99fordzx2]

^^^Not quite sure but wouldnt an alternator overdrive pulley remedey power draw? At least by a little.


-D

[iceracer]

OOPS, disregard my previous post. don't know what I was thinking.
The alternator puts out 1300 watts.

[LiveWire]

Seems pricey to me though for the power or mileage gains. The idea of increasing flow when the water is hotter seems nice, but you could probably use a generic pump and fit it in that costs less.

[inis]

max amp draw 7.5

http://www.hrpworld.com/client_images/ecommerce/client_39/products/pdf_3529_1.pdf

controller for it....

notice it runs the pump after the car is cooled off.

http://www.hrpworld.com/client_images/ecommerce/client_39/products/pdf_4363_1.pdf

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=747,587_3529&action=product

and there in IL. Looks like to get in it , it will be right around 500.00

[ravensguildassasin]

im glad to see you found another supplier for the exact same equipment at a higher price. :confused: not trying to be a dick just pointing it out is all.

[Thnikkaman]

i have an electric water pump setup ready to install in the zx2, i'm just finalizing the controller electronics. it is based on a 35 gpm CSR remote mount pump. i will start a new thread with pictures soon.

[JonsZX2SR]

A simple solution would be to build a plate with water passages to cover the water pump flange on the front cover. On this you could install an idler pulley. You might be able to install a fixed shaft on a hollow water pump body.

You could then install an inline npump on one of the radiator hoses. It should work.

At some point in the future don't be surprosed if the automotive induistry integrates electric water pumps into radiators.

[inis]

stock waterpump is plastic, either press it off or cut it off. Its then a dead pulley that is not robbing anything.

Afraid that the stub is going to affect waterflow, cut it down to the bearing then.

Shit someone wants one, I'll chop it down and everything , 30 + shipping for the pump ... I have atleast 4 laying around.

[Thnikkaman]

i pressed apart the factory pump, fabbed up a sealing plate and basically made it into a plug. i re-routed the serpentine belt since there is no pulley there anymore.

the pump is in the lower rad hose. the recirculation hose from the thermostat housing also had to be relocated along with plugging the hole in the water pump housing.

[ravensguildassasin]

you can post the pics in here to if you want. i am going to be making a write up on this once i have every thing for it.

[Thnikkaman]

i started a new post with the details of my install
http://www.teamzx2.com/showthread.php?t=4772