Twin Turbo

[1/4 mile]

:wickywicky: ok so i got to thinking about turbos for my zx2 and had a ? i couldnt find anywhere. so the ? is............................. is the Zx2 capable of having a TWIN TURBO? if so that would be awesome. :bangnana:

[ZX2 Sleeper]

Post this in the forced induction section.


Most people have issues running 1 turbo with a zx2 transmission, why add 2? Plus extreme engine mods would be needed for it to be safe!

[capitalcrew]

Wrong section.

Anything is possible. You asking tells me that you aren't capable of doing it though. So just give up now and save us all the headache of fixing your car over the internet. Thanks.

[1/4 mile]

damn it was just a ? my B

[inis]

damn it was just a ? my B

K go 2 rite sextoon ten nub , comprende ?

[TTFOWIA]

twin turbo on a 4cyl = FAIL. you would install them in serie? why the fuck bother? 2 small turbos = 1 big turbo. 2 big turbos = no sense.

this thread FAILS.

OP FAILS.

ban.

[\thread]

[J_Mob]

Speed costs money-how fast you want to go?

What one turbo per two cylinders.....I wouldn't think the exhaust could even turn them enough to give boost. IDK though.....not my area of knowledge at all.

[Beodude123]

Unless you plan on running your car up to 9,000 RPM, having one turbo that is properly sized to the engine and horsepower goals will work just fine.

If you plan on having a show queen, twin turbo would probably give you some points I guess.

[Escort Pimp]

:wickywicky: ok so i got to thinking about turbos for my zx2 and had a ?
The reason you couldn't find the question is because its a stupid one.

[ZX2Fast]

Jeez, you guys are mean.

[jdrzx2]

Yeah, he was just asking a question, no need to bash him for it.

[Sir William]

seems to be the way things are done around here these days :(

[jdrzx2]

After 10+ years of the same questions I can see why there is some harshness. It's the fastest way to scare off the new guys though.

[Beodude123]

Yeah, that's not really a good thing... Still though, it's not like you can sugar coat putting twin turbos on a Z. It's tight enough with one!

[TSmiley98]

why not, there are people that have tossed the idea of a quad turbo honda.. even a guy that had built a manifold for them and mocked them up, 4 very small turbo's , I dont think it ever was completed but an attempt was made.. these same people say you cant put 20 psi through a stock zetec,, or a gt35r is too big to run on a zetec, or you cant run 75 shot without tuning.. hey you can do anything you want .

[TTFOWIA]

sure you can do whatever you want, but if it's useless you're just plain dumb.

[Sir William]

Doesn't change the fact that the only way to learn is to ask questions.

The only stupid question is the one that isn't asked.

Hey Pennicillin was a mistake.... for god sake, who the hell thought mould would serve such a handy purpose!!!

[J_Mob]

HEH-good point. Penicillin was a mistake....so was lsd though.

1/4Mile-if you've got the funding, the knowledge to design and fabricate such a thing or the ability to pay someone else too, and a car you can afford to lose if necessary then go for it.

[4U2QUIK]

lsd was a good mistake.

[jombee]

lsd was a good mistake.

X2

[2000ZxT]

why not, there are people that have tossed the idea of a quad turbo honda.. even a guy that had built a manifold for them and mocked them up, 4 very small turbo's , I dont think it ever was completed but an attempt was made.. these same people say you cant put 20 psi through a stock zetec,, or a gt35r is too big to run on a zetec, or you cant run 75 shot without tuning.. hey you can do anything you want .

This is the truth.

Search around on focaljet, it has been done on a Zetec with sequential turbos.

I am not sure what he had for numbers, but he had one nasty setup.

No single turbo setup is going to spool as fast as his, period.

People say it "can't be done" because they themselves wouldn't do it, and let me tell you, that really doesn't mean anything.

[capitalcrew]

This is the truth.

Search around on focaljet, it has been done on a Zetec with sequential turbos.

I am not sure what he had for numbers, but he had one nasty setup.

No single turbo setup is going to spool as fast as his, period.

People say it "can't be done" because they themselves wouldn't do it, and let me tell you, that really doesn't mean anything.

Not true. :eyes: There are ways to make a turbo stay spooled even at idle.

[4U2QUIK]

I agree. sooo not true.

[2000ZxT]

Ok so what is the point of sequential twin turbo?

[capitalcrew]

Nothing.. Hence everyone being assholes.

[2000ZxT]

Oh really? There is no point to it.....interesting....

[Escort Pimp]

This is the truth.

Search around on focaljet, it has been done on a Zetec with sequential turbos.

I am not sure what he had for numbers, but he had one nasty setup.

No single turbo setup is going to spool as fast as his, period.

People say it "can't be done" because they themselves wouldn't do it, and let me tell you, that really doesn't mean anything.

So tell me why all the Supra guys convert to a single turbo if sequential twins are so much better?

[2000ZxT]

Because they are dyno queens and 1/4 cars. Also I'm not talking about a stock sequential twin turbo setup, no stock turbo setup is ever even half way decent.

PS: I know a few guys around here that have built 800ish hp supras, one of them is my dads friend. That guy has built two and the other guy has one with over 800HP. He's running an 11 second 1/4. Woo!

[TTFOWIA]

2 small turbos = 1 big. It's just spooling faster. on a ZX2 (or any 4cyl, or any car that won't be at 30psi) you don't need that a all.

[2000ZxT]

Here is where the controversy comes into play.

If you were really going to STT a 4 banger, I would really hope you plan on AT LEAST 30 psi with a completely built engine.

[Escort Pimp]

Because they are dyno queens and 1/4 cars. Also I'm not talking about a stock sequential twin turbo setup, no stock turbo setup is ever even half way decent.

PS: I know a few guys around here that have built 800ish hp supras, one of them is my dads friend. That guy has built two and the other guy has one with over 800HP. He's running an 11 second 1/4. Woo!
Just because they can't drive doesn't mean others can't. Guess how many turbos the 7 and 8 second Supras run? Thats right, one.

BTW what do you run in the 1/4 mile?

[Escort Pimp]

2 small turbos = 1 big. It's just spooling faster.
The common misconception is that twin turbos spool faster. If you take two turbos that flow as much as one big single the twins will actually spool slower. With a twin turbo you have to spool twice as many parts. Which do you think would be heavier? 4 turbo wheels and 2 shafts, or 2 wheels and one shaft?

[TTFOWIA]

well, it will be more restriction on the exhaust, but will certainly compress air faster, cuz the first turbo will compress, then the 2nd will actually compress air that's already compressed.

[krux]

You guys sound like a bunch of baby's going back and forth.

[Beodude123]

Not true. :eyes: There are ways to make a turbo stay spooled even at idle.


And none of them are good for the turbo... LoL I know back in the turbo F1 days, they used to do what is called a "fifth stroke". They would run the engine really rich during shifts, and would have an air injection system to the exhaust manifold. The fuel going into the mani would get ignited by the hot turbine, and the fresh air would fuel the fire. This made the turbo spin up like crazy, but it would kill your turbo with the quickness.

[pdwighty]

isn't there a new bmw thats suppose to have 3 turbos?

[TTFOWIA]

never heard of that.

[capitalcrew]

And none of them are good for the turbo... LoL I know back in the turbo F1 days, they used to do what is called a "fifth stroke". They would run the engine really rich during shifts, and would have an air injection system to the exhaust manifold. The fuel going into the mani would get ignited by the hot turbine, and the fresh air would fuel the fire. This made the turbo spin up like crazy, but it would kill your turbo with the quickness.

If reliability is on his mind then he shouldn't even be asking this question.

[Beodude123]

LoL This is true. But still, it would be taking the not as reliable turbos, and making them less reliable.

[J_Mob]

I have seen numerous compound turbos on diesel applications...compounding (in sequence) is supposed to increase boost pressure. In gasoline, twin turbos are generally on 3 or 4 cylinder sets-and not running in compound but as individual turbos. Keeps the pressure from having to be split up between as many intakes. I've seen them individually on each side of a 8,12, or 16 cylinder diesel as well. Even with wastgates....could 2 cylinders from a small bore engine keep it turning enough to have a good effect? I could see it being done, but the cost vs effect may not be equivelant enough to justify it (IMO)

WTF is spooling? Are you talking about the turbo spinning or actually creating boost? Sorry, I am not familiar with that term so had to ask...

[TTFOWIA]

well, spooling usually means compressing the air, but I think beodude didn't mean it that way... that's why I used the term "compressing" instead in my 2nd post.

[J_Mob]

So spooling is creating boost. 10-4, I figured it must have been what was being implied I just wasn't familiar with it.

[jdrzx2]

Because they are dyno queens and 1/4 cars. Also I'm not talking about a stock sequential twin turbo setup, no stock turbo setup is ever even half way decent.

PS: I know a few guys around here that have built 800ish hp supras, one of them is my dads friend. That guy has built two and the other guy has one with over 800HP. He's running an 11 second 1/4. Woo!800hp and they are only running 11's? What a waste, I've seen 800hp civics run 9's.

[pdwighty]

This guy is running a Triple turbos in his supra http://www.suprastore.com/robjoh65trit.html
And the bugatti has Quad turbos so i say its possible. maybe more work than its really worth but definitly posible.

[capitalcrew]

The bugatti has 16 cylinders. One turbo per four.

Imagine that.

[4U2QUIK]

just caught up here and pimp is completely correct about supras and stt.
Why do you think I'm running one big turbo.
and I push around 400 hp.

[2000ZxT]

Obviously the Supra's STT setup is the only one in existence...

[4U2QUIK]

it's not sequtial either it's just a tt setup.

[capitalcrew]

:lol:

[ilarson007]

800hp and they are only running 11's? What a waste, I've seen 800hp civics run 9's.

But think of how much lighter Civics are than Supras... a 2000-2400lb. car vs. a 4000lb car...

[4U2QUIK]

3680 to be exact.
but supras also have an extra liter of displacement for that extra 1200 lbs. So it ends up being about the same amout of displacement per pound of weight.

[ilarson007]

if supras have a 3.0l, and most hondas from the 90's have a 1.6l or smaller, that's almost 2x as big.

[mellowness65]

if a hemi car from 1969(around 500hp) can break 11 seconds on street tires then a 800hp supra making the same times is a carload of fail

just my .02

[capitalcrew]

The supra is RWD. That should more than make up for any weight difference.. The supra has no excuse.

[Beodude123]

Obviously the Supra's STT setup is the only one in existence...

The 3rd gen RX-7 had a sequential twin turbo setup.

[ilarson007]

Well, I was going to say the GT-R, but the turbos on the RB26DETT are arranged in parallel (the first three cylinders power one turbo, and the last 3 cyl power the other one... weird).

[zx2reme]

When I saw the topic for this thread, I already knew where it was going to go before I even opened it. A lot of bashing going on, for a kid who probably has just got this car, or is new to the forums. And the site is new, so a search would have netted zero results for this topic since it hasn't been asked in forever. So no reason to bash/ban the kid for asking a question.

Anyway, when I seen twin turbo, this came to mind. http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0106tur_apexi_drag_racing_acura_integra/index.html Not sure what there setup was, but still very interesting. This is what is possible if you have virtually an unlimited budget. This was done like 7/8 years ago. It says it was Japan's answer to Steph Papadakis' record holding civic. I guess they tried to beat us at our own game. Funny thing is, that twin turbo Integra never beat his single turbo civic. So twin isn't necessarily better all the time. But you still have to admire the engineering/ ingenuity that went into this car.

[zx2reme]

And going back to read through the article, the car is running 600+ HP. That was what a full race import ran back then. That is found on daily drivers these days. My have times changed.

[jdrzx2]

I wouldn't go that far by saying 600 hp civics are daily drivers.

[4U2QUIK]

lol no kiddin but there is a 5oohp na civic running around town. I raced him in my supra and got my ass handed to me.

[zx2reme]

Well, I should say it seems every boosted civic you see in a magazine these days that aren't full fledged race cars are pushing 500-600. Hell there are some in the 700 range as well.

[ZX2 S/R Black]

This is hilarious... i didn't read anything more than like half of this...there are benefits to both single and duel... funny thing is a looong time ago i asked this question as well... and for you guys that i thought knew what you were talking about, i'm suprised... disappointed actually... ONE BIG TURBO IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!

oh, ponder this, the fastest production car in the world... Bugatti Veryon... Quad turbo... yea, think about that shall we....

and don't try and enlighten me by saying " Oh, they don't make a big enough turbo for that big of an engine, or it's for fitment issues..."

[J_Mob]

I have seen some huge turbos.....ever seen a 3516 or a 3600 series cat engine??


Sorry had to add two or three cents to that. Everyone should know that the biggest limit on what you can do to an engine or car is......MONEY.

[Pineapple]

Dude, don't get discouraged by people being assholes. They forget that they were all noobs at one time and they probably all asked a lot of stupid questions. I think I asked the same question on an air cooled VW forum years ago when I first started to get into cars. The difference with them was that they didn't just call me an idiot, they actually explained to me why it wouldn't work.

Short answer: yes, you can twin turbo a ZX2. It probably isn't the best option for our particular engine, but it can be done. If you're looking for something exotic and unique to set your show car apart from the rest of the pack and you have the knowledge, money and resources to pull it off, then go for it. If you're looking for the setup that will give you the best performance, you're probably be better off with a single turbo.

There are quite a few reasons why a twin turbo setup isn't going to work very well on a ZX2. First, it doesn't take a very big turbo to feed a 2 liter four cylinder. A single turbo, with the right housing, in a properly setup system will be more than capable of pumping out all the boost your engine can handle, and wont have too much lag, plus will be a cheaper, simpler setup. Second, it would be a packaging nightmare. There isn't much room for a single turbo in the ZX2 engine bay, let alone two. Third, when you put two turbos on a four cylinder, each one is only being fed by two cylinders. This means that each turbo only gets one exhaust pulse for every revolution of the engine, which doesn't help spool them faster.

Yes, despite what some people here are saying, there are many advantages to a twin turbo setup over a single. Twin turbo setups DO tend to spool up faster because they have a lower inertial mass than an equivalent single turbo. Remember that when you increase the size of a physical object, you are increasing it's size in three dimensions. Mass will be increased by a factor of three. If you double the size of the compressor wheel of a turbo, it is going to have more than twice the mass and take much more force to accelerate. The supra guys generally switch to a single turbo because they are going a for maximum horsepower and quick quarter mile times. The supra was designed as a sports car, not a drag car. The twin turbo setup will spool quicker, but a large single turbo will be better for maximum horsepower and low ETs (which is what most modified supras are built for).

Really, it all depends on your application. A large, single turbo is generally better for drag racing where you want maximum horsepower and turbo lag isn't an issue. I single turbo is a simpler system. It is being fed by all of the engines cylinders for maximum boost. Plus lower inertial mass means that the turbo will also slow down faster. A large single turbo won't slow down as much during shifts as two smaller ones will. In a road racing/autocross/rally situation where you need lightning quick throttle response, you might be better off with a twin turbo setup.

[4U2QUIK]

good job.

[J_Mob]

Yeah I was gonna give him props lastnight but didn't want too:satannana:

[capitalcrew]

This is hilarious... i didn't read anything more than like half of this...there are benefits to both single and duel... funny thing is a looong time ago i asked this question as well... and for you guys that i thought knew what you were talking about, i'm suprised... disappointed actually... ONE BIG TURBO IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!

oh, ponder this, the fastest production car in the world... Bugatti Veryon... Quad turbo... yea, think about that shall we....

and don't try and enlighten me by saying " Oh, they don't make a big enough turbo for that big of an engine, or it's for fitment issues..."

This isn't a bugatti.

Ponder this. The fastest production car in the world has A/C. Having A/C in your zx2 doesn't make it faster though.

:eyes:

Apples and oranges dude. Its like putting normal engine oil into a tiny tiny engine. The oil that lubes your engine would gum up and destroy a tiny tiny tiny tiny engine.

Those four turbos that power the bugatti's SIXTEEN cylinder engine, EIGHT liter engine, wouldn't do crap for your zx2. It wouldn't produce enough exhaust gas to turn four turbos. but..

8 liters.. 4 turbos.. 8:4=2:1 that is 2 liters per one turbo. Imagine that..

Twin turbo zx2=fail.

[capitalcrew]

Oh actually.. don't ponder that, because the fastest production car in the world is no longer the bugatti veyron.

[J_Mob]

Here you go-four turbos. Maybe it would fit in a ZX2 if you used a lot of lube...

http://jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2008/02/4%20turbos.jpg

[J_Mob]

oooh wait....eight turbos

http://www.lateral-g.org/sandlin/incin9.jpg

(edit-had to go back and read about this one...apparently its an old chevy bel aire customized v8 show car set up)

[J_Mob]

Well shite-how bout we must ditch the engine and slap this badboy in there...

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/12/2008/01/GM%20Turbo.jpg

[4U2QUIK]

Oh actually.. don't ponder that, because the fastest production car in the world is no longer the bugatti veyron.
MMMMM GT-R

[J_Mob]

all this turbo talk got me wanting to put one on my ZX2.....then I would need a better tranny (like those Level 10 ones) and would have to rebuild everything. Dammit, I need 10 grand so I can do an impulse buy.......

[ZX2 S/R Black]

This isn't a bugatti.

Ponder this. The fastest production car in the world has A/C. Having A/C in your zx2 doesn't make it faster though.

:eyes:

Apples and oranges dude. Its like putting normal engine oil into a tiny tiny engine. The oil that lubes your engine would gum up and destroy a tiny tiny tiny tiny engine.

Those four turbos that power the bugatti's SIXTEEN cylinder engine, EIGHT liter engine, wouldn't do crap for your zx2. It wouldn't produce enough exhaust gas to turn four turbos. but..

8 liters.. 4 turbos.. 8:4=2:1 that is 2 liters per one turbo. Imagine that..

Twin turbo zx2=fail.

Wow... I didn't for one second disagree that twin turbo zx2 = fail... i think you took that wrong... my point was exactly that twin turbo/quad was for a bigger engine... honestly where i see apples and oranges was when you introduced oil in the convo...

:eyes:

but i'm not here to fight... why do you think i was going with ONE GT2860RS... my opinion the best all around turbo for our car...

[blue_2001]

i see stt everyday in fact i can go out into our shop right now and look at one if i wanted to its on a cat c13

[J_Mob]

Thats what I'm talking about.