2nd gear

[simplicity05]

I'm just looking for knowledge from someone who would know:

Why is our 2nd gear such a bear to get into from first, and what - if anything - can be done to rectify the problem?

[koihoshi]

ROFL at your signature, you still have that! You rock!

on subject:
Here is a conversation between mechtech and myself with some tidbits of wisdom

i remember you had some really good advice on shifting from 1st to 2nd and from 2nd to 1st.

i searched and think it got lost on the old boards. would you be so kind as to share that wisdom?

I recall you saying to shift from 2nd to 1st at a near crawl, which since i read that have been doing so. 1st has never grinded on me or given me any trouble since. from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd sometimes i get a bite. however, my clutch is the same as the car now at 127,000 miles....

recently changed the tranny fluid which helped a bit. i wouldn't describe it even as a grind. it goes into gear without question or hesitation. just seems like a quick "bite" as it gets into gear, in other words, doesn't feel smooth like downshifting or upshifting, almost like it goes into gear with a teeny "bite" is the only way i can truly describe it.

one thing i've though is that perhaps it isn't the gear and perhaps it's actually my shifter, i have a B&M short shifter. I didn't want to get a TWM because it was such a short throw i feared the risk of running into shifting TOO early and not allowing the tranny any time to catch up and hurting the synchros.

Well, let's see..
Instead of coming to a complete stop at stop signs, a slow crawl is better for the clutch and for shifting back in to first. Motorcycles actually shift gears, car's gear are always engaged and any problems are the synchros or synchro clutches.
[Illinois law now states that you do not have to come to a complete stop, if you are crawling cautiously.]
Our transmissions has a bit of a problem going INTO second gear. The odd thing is, I have never ground second going DOWN into it, which should actually be harder for the synchros. Upshifting naturally synchs the RPMs and should be easier on it. So there is something about the mass of the gearsets or something else. It is not a performance transmission, but even high dollar cars with supposedly good transmissions do not shift well nowadays.
My standard advice is to raise the clutch pedal a hair to get a bit more travel. This is done by the stop on top of the pedal. THEN adjust the pedal freeplay at the rod going to the clutch master cyl - get it to zero, or a hair of play. Bleed the system. You can simply open the bleeder and let it drain into a can [use a piece of hose to route it].
And last but not least, good fluid is crucial.
ATF is friction modified for auto trans, NOT manual synchros. It does NOT have anti wear or extreme friction additives. Therefore, shifting and trans wear are compromised when using it.
As you know, I recommend Pennzoil or GM Synchromesh [a part synthetic ], Ford's brand new sauce [VERY expensive and therefore why bother], Amsoil MTG, or what I am using now, Redline MTL and MT90 mixed 50/50. Redline MTL alone is a superior fluid, I just thickened things up a bit.
But don't be too concerned about viscosity - remember gear oils are rated at lower temps than engine oils, and a 75-90 gear oil is about a 10-40 engine oil. Not too thick, is it?
RedlineMTL is about in the middle, and Synchromesh is a bit thinner. ATF is the thinnest, and dino ATF breaks down and shears after 5,000 miles to a ridiculous 4 weight, or something like that.
You gotta give our trans all the time it need to shift. Other gears can be shifted more rapidly, but second has proven to be problematic. Engine mount inserts help a LOT - not sure why. I shift with VERY light pressure on the stick. I can shift very fast this way, don't overpower the trans.
Always let off the gas and use the clutch.
Also, our heavy flywheel is NOT the best for shifting.
It's hard to explain, but if I start pulling on the shifter out of first to second a bit quicker than normal as the clutch is going down, it seems to not grind [when trying to shift fast].
And yes, the shorter throw of the B+M will make things happen faster, and you will have more feel of anything going on, because it is magnified by about 1/2 as much.

You probably knew all this, but this is my take on it.

[iceracer]

I don't know since I don't have that problem. Could be your shifter.

[koihoshi]

To add...

I've found mechtech's tips to work greatly on these subjects as it seems to be pretty well known our 1st and 2nd gears are a PITA sometimes.

I've found that as he suggested, light pressure and giving it time to catch up more has resulted in pretty much perfect shifts every time.

[simplicity05]

I don't know since I don't have that problem. Could be your shifter.

I know it isn't. Many have this same problem.

I can already shift pretty well imo, but I would just love to be able to get it to redline in first, clutch, then slap it into second, pop the clutch and take off. I already squak them into second, so it's not about that either :-P

Anyone know if there's a swap or anything that can be custom made that will remedy the 2nd gear flaw?

[koihoshi]

As mechtech said... use little pressure and get the ES engine mounts.

I can shift well too. it's not about your ability to shift, but rather figuring out all the little quirks of the car and adapting your shifting to it's gears. I've learned to be much softer and letting it wind down more and that has helped.

I see mechtech himself is reading this as i type this so i'm sure there is a book of wisdom on it's way...

[mechtech]

To reiterate:
Good fluid will help a lot, as will a few minutes spent on clutch adjustments at the pedal.
A light flywheel will help - it will come down faster for improved shifting.
Motor mount inserts help a lot - it seems when going into second, something is going one way while something else that shouldn't is going another way [at high RPMs and high load].
But a vibrating idle is a trade of with good shifting.

[simplicity05]

My car already vibrates like a Spencer novelty gift at idle, so a little more wouldn't be an issue lol