how to swap 5th gear

[DaviDawg]

parts needed:
1) 5th gear (left gear)
2) drive gear (right gear)
3) silicone gasket maker
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/DSC00649.jpg
tools needed: (for doing this with trans on car)
1) jack + stands
2) rachet + 10mm, 32mm or 1 1/4 sockets
3) 10mm wrench
4) punch + hammer
5) flat head screwdriver
6) impact gun is recommended

1. locate the cap on the trans (closest to front driver wheel, ill post pic soon)
2. remove 10mm bolts
3. remove cap
4. unbend tabs on nuts
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/DSC00645.jpg
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/DSC00646.jpg
5. remove nuts with 32mm or 1 1/4 socket (impact gun is recommended)
6. remove pin with punch
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/DSC00644.jpg
7. remove this piece (lol, idk what its called)
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/DSC00637.jpg
8. remove fork
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/DSC00638.jpg
9. remove 5th gear
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/DSC00640.jpg
10. remove spacer
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/DSC00642.jpg
11. remove drive gear
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/DSC00643.jpg

now put it back together in reverse, replacing your 5th gear and drive gear.
IMPORTANT: make sure you all parts back in the same order!

tip: let the silicone sit on cap for 5-10 min before installing

then do this to the gas company http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/50.gif

[DaviDawg]

btw, i have the 98 trans (short 3rd, 4th, 5th gears) and put in the sedan (.717) 5th gear. at 70 mph my tach is reading 3000-3100 rpm's and i get about a 1000 rpm drop when i shift from 4th to 5th.

[scort2498]

have u figured out the savings on gas yet?

[DaviDawg]

i just finished my trans sunday night so no, not yet. sorry. heres the distruction i had to fix
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/DSC00604.jpg
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/DSC00605.jpg
caused by this shaft that belongs in the diff
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/DSC00606.jpg

[scort2498]

nice man nice.. i jsut fixwd my trans to but not the differential... i still need to find the vsss wire and plug it in... but keep us updated on the mileage also u can do this WHILE the trans is in the car correct?

[DaviDawg]

for sure, you can do this with the trans in the car.

ill post mileage numbers asap.

[scort2498]

do u have to pull the axels if u do it in car?

[ZX2 S/R Black]

haha I was just going to make a write up on this...hahah already have the transaxle housing separated... and my 5th gear is just waiting for tomorrow to be put on :)

As well as stiffer springs for the PG

[DaviDawg]

no, its really, really, really easy to do. the directions i have posted are the same for the trans both in/out of the car.

why are you putiing in stiifer springs?

[Blue ZX2]

Great write up! This is much easier that I was expecting it to be!

SOOO technicaly you could just do a lincoln locker job on that baby (diff) right???

And im assuming hes putting stiffer springs to keep the diff locked as much as possible.

[Robend]

is there any way we could get someone to do the math to find out what 5th gear's new ratio would be?

[DaviDawg]

4.1 x .717= ?

[Robend]

2.94 ??? that cant be right, our 5th gear is already .76...

unless your .717 is the old drive gear, in which case it would just be .717

which would yield a top speed of 156mph at 6500 rpm with 185/60/15 tires (i believe those are stock)

stock configuration with stock tires yields 147 mph at 6500 rpm

[DaviDawg]

i figured you were asking for the overall fifth gear ratio since i already said what my fifth was. up there ^


btw, i have the 98 trans (short 3rd, 4th, 5th gears) and put in the sedan (.717) 5th gear. at 70 mph my tach is reading 3000-3100 rpm's and i get about a 1000 rpm drop when i shift from 4th to 5th.

[Robend]

oh... i saw that, but that was for the sedan, i assumed our 5th was different

[DaviDawg]

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/M5.jpg

[Robend]

oh... shit, im sorry... when i read it i thought you were just swapping the stock configuration... swapping the drive gear and 5th gear with each other. which can't be done anyway. im sorry.

[Tedmx22]

Guys be sure to post your new yield numbers. Also 2 pics of your tach @ 70MPH in 5th and 80MPH in 5th, would be much appreciated. And if you really want to shine, than maybe a quick video of the the tach drop when shifting from 4th to 5th.

There's a way to fabricate a camcorder positioning bar from a PVC pipe that fits in between the head-rests of the front passenger seats, here's a few ideas: http://www.softweigh.com/video/diy.html

[Tedmx22]

I'm starting to get ideas of potential gear sways (and other tech swaps) from the fuel-sipping Focus! Imagine getting your hands on a latest Focus (with Sync) that has been totaled do to a roll-over, but drivetrain and powertrain undamaged!

[Tedmx22]

Since I did ask for pictures and want to be a team player, here is a stock sample picture of speed @ 3K RPM in 5th gear. If it wouldn't be blurry it'd show indicate 67-68MPH.

After this gear swap you've performed, where is the RPM @ 67MPH? What is your speed @ 3K RPM?

Photos appreciated. Thx.

[DaviDawg]

you have the later trans. your fifth gear is a .73. i have the earlier trans and my fifth was .79. my new fifth is now .717. not much different than yours since we do have the same final. our third and fourth are very different though. ill post a pic tomorrow cause i dont drive my car as often as others.

[DaviDawg]

70mph in fourth gear
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/0430080026b.jpg
70mph in fifth gear
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/0430080026a.jpg
80mph in fifth gear
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/0430080027.jpg

[Tedmx22]

Thank you for the pic post. Anyone else? Join us.

(Nostalgia) I'll never forget many years ago I made a mental note of my fascinating observation. My father's 1987 Colt Vista 4WD Wagon achieved each and every time a whopping 80MPH in 5th gear at only 3K RPM!! I thought I had made a mistake. I checked it several times in different driving conditions and each time it could travel Eighty miles per hour at three thousand revolutions per minute! Since then I haven't noticed anything else that had those numbers simultaneously.

(Back to our Z's) Please tell us or re-quote where (year & MTX model #) can we obtain that 5th gear? Thx.

Our MTX is made in Japan, huh? Well that's great news! Makes me wonder if we can interchange gears from the Probe, 626, MX-3, MX-6? When I sold my '93 Probe, I told the buyer they can achieve at least 420 miles on a full tank of 5th gear freeway cruising. They did buy it because the loved it, but were skeptical, until they traveled through several states on a roadtrip. Then I got a pleasant phone call saying the surpassed my quoted 420/tank just by a little and indeed were very pleased.

The Probe was one of my favorite cars. Wikipedia says it was replaced by the ZX2. Come on!! The Z evolved from the Escort, while the Probe evolved into the Cougar (twin to the Puma of Europe).

[nlsolja123]

Trans Model /First /Second /Third/ Fourth /Fifth
2005 Escape /3.50/ 1.94/ 1.26/ 0.95/ 0.81
G5M 3.307 1.833 1.311 1.030 0.795
G5M 3.310 1.830 1.310 0.970 0.750 (Probe2.5L/Escort ZX2 2.0L)
G5M-R 3.666 2.059 1.310 1.030 0.837
G15M-R 3.307 1.842 1.310 0.970 0.755
iB5 3.154 1.926 1.281 0.951 0.756
M5 3.45 1.94 1.28 0.86 0.69 ( Festiva)
M5 3.30 1.83 1.31 1.03 0.79 (Escort/Tracer 1.8L)
M5 3.42 1.70 1.15 0.87 0.73 (Escort/Tracer 1.9L (FS))
M5 3.42 1.84 1.29 0.97 0.73 (Escort/Tracer 1.9L)
M5 3.31 1.83 1.23 0.91 0.72 (Probe/Escort 2.0L, 2.2L Non-Turbo)
M5 3.25 1.71 1.19 0.93 0.71 (Probe 2.2L Turbo)
M5 3.250 1.90 1.32 0.98 0.71 (Probe 3.0L)
MTX 3.416 1.842 1.290 1.028 0.820 (Capri Non-Turbo)
MTX Q 3.667 2.136 1.448 1.028 0.767
MTX G 3.307 1.833 1.233 0.970 0.795 (Capri Turbo)
MTX-75 3.667 2.136 1.448 1.028 0.767
MTX-75 3.42 2.14 1.45 1.03 0.77
MTX III 3.60 2.12 1.39 1.02 0.75
MTX IV 3.60 2.12 1.39 1.02 0.77


The festiva gear would be best for GAS milage

[Tedmx22]

Thank you for the detailed work. I forgot about the Capri though. Yes, I see the spec for the Festiva gear, but would it be interchangeable in our MTX? Does anyone know for sure, or is it just hope and speculation for now?

[DaviDawg]

if the festiva 5th gear and drive gear look like these than it is very probable but i dont know for sure. but the difference between the .717(sedan 5th) and .69(festiva 5th)would only be a couple hundred rpms at best. if youd want to go 80mph at 3k rpms then youd need a .62 5th gear.
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm254/davidawg/zx2%20trans/DSC00649.jpg

[Tedmx22]

Could it be possible the gears look like that if the Festiva MTX was assembled in the same country at the same plant?

I'd just hate to create an "experiment account" to buy a Festiva MTX to dissect.

Anyone on here have a neighbor or can get their hands on a Festiva MTX in the name of experimenting for MPG??

Cheers

[00zx2s/r]

where did u get ur new gear?

[DaviDawg]

ted, i dont think anybody is going to take on any experiments to answer your question. just go to the junk yard of your choosing and take the gear out of the festiva. and whalah, you have answered your question for the entrance fee cost.

i got my 5th gear out of a 97 escort wagon. same as the sedan.

[scort2498]

any ews with mpg numbers?

[DaviDawg]

on one tank of gas i got 28 mpg driving normal for half a tank and ripping through the hills (4k-4500+rpm) for the other half. this is with the resistor mod from mechtech as well.

[scort2498]

what were u getting before hand

[DaviDawg]

never checked so couldnt i tell if there was a difference

[Gregersonke]

Doh, We could kill you...

Get a scangauge..

Look online for scangauge it'll read codes and tell you your current gas mileage.

[03zx2]

It would be at around 3.73.thats the sedans final ratio.

[DaviDawg]

^ what question are you answering?

[DaviDawg]

i went to los angeles over this last weekend and got good gas mileage.

on the way there i didnt use my ac and got 36 mpg. 398miles/11.01gallons
on the way back i used my ac and got 34 mpg. 375miles/11.03galloons

i had 40psi in tires on the way there and back. mods are in my sig plus mechtech's resistor mod.

[pinkshinyalan]

A taller 5th gear can be sourced from an early-90s Mazda 626 and Ford Probes with the 4-cylinder engine (2.2L turbo) -- I think the gear from the 626/Probe might be even taller than the Escort sedan. They use the same G-series transmission found in the ZX2. I just pulled one out at a junkyard yesterday ($12, including the shift fork). Damned near impossible to get off without an impact gun.

I found out about this on iMazda some time ago.
http://www.imazda.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2701

[DaviDawg]

you should take the shaft nuts off while the trans is still in the car to make it easier along with a breaker bar.

could you post the info here cause we have to be registered there to view the info?

btw, keep us posted as to it fitting or not after its installed.

[pinkshinyalan]

I can't copy and paste the iMazda walkthrough because of copyright reasons. They have a nice big warning on there. I can, however, give you the part numbers and the cars the gears come from.

93-97 Mazda MX-6 (both 4 and 6 cyl)
93-97 Mazda 626 (both 4 & 6 cyl)

Apparently I was wrong about it being the 4-cylinder only. Here are the part numbers, if you want to look it up:

5th Gear #1
(Primary Shaft gear)
G560-17-611A
NEW PART NUMBER - G560-17-611C

5th Gear #2
(Secondary Shaft gear)
G514-17-308

[JuniorDee]

I have a 99 MTX, can I do this 5th gear swap and see similar rpm drops in 5th gear?

[DaviDawg]

hey pinkshinyalan, the gear ratio for that fifth has to be on the site somewhere. can you find it and post it up.

I have a 99 MTX, can I do this 5th gear swap and see similar rpm drops in 5th gear?

depends on what month your car was made. theres a sticker on your body where you open your door and its tells you when it was made.

[pinkshinyalan]

Looks like it's 0.717 on the Mazda 626, same as the Escort sedan. Mazda-based Ford Probes may have a .700 fifth gear.

That's assuming the information I read was correct. Probe may not have better gearing (why would they make a new 5th gear for just one car?), but at least it'll be the same as the 626.

EDIT: Probes have the 0.717 gear. See post below.

[JuniorDee]

build date 12/98

[DaviDawg]

Looks like it's 0.717 on the Mazda 626, same as the Escort sedan. Mazda-based Ford Probes may have a .700 fifth gear.

That's assuming the information I read was correct. Probe may not have better gearing (why would they make a new 5th gear for just one car?), but at least it'll be the same as the 626.

we have the fifth gear ratios then. cool, more cars we can pull that gear from.

build date 12/98
you will see the same rpms drops sir

[pinkshinyalan]

Confirmed: 1992-1997 Ford Probe 4-cylinders have a 0.717 ratio 5th gear.
http://www.pansypatrol.com/the-gas-mileage-mod/
This guy claims to have a 10% improvement in economy on his 1994 Mazda Protege LX, which has a 0.795 ratio on the 5th. We should expect similar results.

[JuniorDee]

we have the fifth gear ratios then. cool, more cars we can pull that gear from.


you will see the same rpms drops sir

sweeeeeet thanks

[DaviDawg]

Confirmed: 1992-1997 Ford Probe 4-cylinders have a 0.717 ratio 5th gear.
http://www.pansypatrol.com/the-gas-mileage-mod/
This guy claims to have a 10% improvement in economy on his 1994 Mazda Protege LX, which has a 0.795 ratio on the 5th. We should expect similar results.

thanks for the extra info pinshinyalan :beer:


sweeeeeet thanks
youre welcome

[krux]

Has anybody heard of getting the gears new on the shafts from a place? If so that would be slick? Anybody find a shop on were you can buy your gears from online? If so how much?

[Tedmx22]

Since Festivas are hard to come by, does the successor Aspire have the same .069 5th?? Where online can the Aspire 5-spd MTX ratios be found?

[JuniorDee]

Has anybody heard of getting the gears new on the shafts from a place? If so that would be slick? Anybody find a shop on were you can buy your gears from online? If so how much?

I called the local Mazda dealer and I was quoted the following:

G560-17-611c $77.58
G514-17-308 $121.58


just call mazda and order the parts. I also dont know why ford wouldnt have the festiva gears for purchase. Just need the part numbers.....

[Tedmx22]

Bump on Aspire ratios.

[Tedmx22]

Found it! Aspire ratios:

1st: 3.454
2nd: 1.944
3rd: 1.275
4th: 0.861
5th: 0.692
final: 4.06

[pinkshinyalan]

That's all well and good, but do the Aspires have the same transmissions? What years?

Hard to find, those suckers are.

[JuniorDee]

You can get a full transmission from salvage yards, however the price is higher than just getting the parts from mazda.

[Zx2fst]

so what fifth gear set up would be good for a turbo set up? or is that something you would need to know the turbo set up and all that?

[pinkshinyalan]

so what fifth gear set up would be good for a turbo set up? or is that something you would need to know the turbo set up and all that?

Turbo or not, it won't matter. You're better off with the taller 5th gear for sure. 5th isn't meant for acceleration or anything, it's just a cruising gear. Taller gear = better mileage, up to a point. Too tall a gear on too weak an engine means it can't overcome aerodynamic drag at speed, but we're nowhere near that threshold.

[Tedmx22]

If you're fortunate enough to find an Aspire with tranny still attached in a yard somewhere, then you can by those 2 gears for just a few bucks. Careful though, some yards frown if you take apart a wholesome tranny.

Another option is Craigslist. Monitor it weekly since donor part cars show up often.

The first generation Aspires (Festivas) are harder to find. Lucky for us though, there are plenty of '97 Aspires around. Post a WTB ad on Craigslist and add lots of keywords to boost your hit count.

[joshalabama]

I have an issue, I've taken the trans apart and am working on putting it back together, the gears/sycnros won't sit right back ontop of 5th gear. They come apart. The 3 little pins and the inside gear, I am getting very annoyed with it. Any advice?

[DaviDawg]

there is a a metal spring that holds the three pins in place. you have to take spring out in order to put the pins back into place then put the spring back in and put the synchro back together. the fork has to move along with the synchro also when placing the synchro on the shaft and make sure the synchro is right side up. the picture in the first page will show you what side is suppose to be facing up.

[mellowness65]

So you pulled your new 5th out of a jy car right?
It doesn't look hard to do and I'm guessing this doesn't take long either? I'm going to do this to my trans before I put it in my car I think

[DaviDawg]

So you pulled your new 5th out of a jy car right?


yes

It doesn't look hard to do and I'm guessing this doesn't take long either?

correct

[pinkshinyalan]

Completed the swap last weekend (installed a new wheel bearing and ball joint while I was at it).

Note to those who go pull one at a junkyard: I had one hell of a time breaking loose the retaining nuts. Electric impact might help, or bring something to jam between the gears to keep them from spinning -- something you don't mind getting destroyed. I ruined a perfectly good flathead screwdriver. Oh, and bring a fucking HUGE breaker bar.

I pulled mine out of a 91 Mazda 626 4-cylinder. I should also note that the 626 had some idler gears at the end of the shafts, which the ZX2 does not have. Everything else was the same. I did not take pictures at the junkyard, but if you look at that how-to LSD/5th gear swap thread in the iMazda forum (I linked to it earlier this thread), you can see pics of what to expect. Size difference between the gears is tiny -- I couldn't actually see a difference between the big gears, but I didn't take a dial caliper to it and measure it or anything. Only visible difference to me was in the small gears.

I've observed about a 300 to 400 rpm difference at highway cruise speeds. Will note gas mileage increase once I have a good average.

Night pics are before, day pics are after. Yes, that's 170k miles on it. If I didn't have my Benz for a daily driver now, it would be closer to 190k.

[pinkshinyalan]

Oh, and a note when you go do this on your car: I had to loosen the left and right motor mounts and put a jack under the engine to tilt it over enough so I could get the access cap off of the transmission. Frame rail interferes.

Had no such problem on the 626 at the junkyard though.

[DaviDawg]

Note to those who go pull one at a junkyard: I had one hell of a time breaking loose the retaining nuts. Electric impact might help, or bring something to jam between the gears to keep them from spinning -- something you don't mind getting destroyed. I ruined a perfectly good flathead screwdriver. Oh, and bring a fucking HUGE breaker bar.


for this you can also find something to jam in between the brake pedal and seat, and put it in gear. then use the breaker bar after unbending the tabs on the nuts.
good job pinkshinyalan!

[zxtwou2]

so this thread is all about the sedan gear putting you at 3000 rpm at 70 in a '98, right? my 5th gear in my 01 has always been at 3000 at 70...so it's not just sedan 5th gears that do it. mine has never even been at 3100 or 3200 like some of the pictures show. it's always been a touch under 3000 :shrug: just saying, if you have a 99.5+ 5th gear and try to swap it for the sedan...don't expect a change. just throwing that out there.

[DaviDawg]

i have mentioned that this is meant for 98's, but not directly.
you have the later trans. your fifth gear is a .73. i have the earlier trans and my fifth was .79. my new fifth is now .717. not much different than yours since we do have the same final. our third and fourth are very different though. ill post a pic tomorrow cause i dont drive my car as often as others.

thanks zxtwou2