Conspiracy theory of my own...

[JonsZX2SR]

Since people love to come up with a conspiracy theory of two, let me propose one of my own. I don't actually believe the idea, but this should be worth a few good discussions and debates.

You won't find anything on the internet about this. What I am proposing is my own observation and thinking.

Cash rich enemies of the US decided that defeating the US militarily was too risky and not likely to succeed. rather they looked at how germany lost WW1, where their economy collapsed before the British and French economies. In fact, at the end of WW1 germany was pretty well entrenced inside the NE French border.

Realizing that the Iraq war was draining the US economy and a trade imbalance was weakening the dollar they decided a cheap dollar would allow them to buy into US financial institutions and undermine the US economy. If you look at the financial institutions that have been purchased with oil money over the past few years there are a number of examples. In addition these investors bought heavily into mutual funds and energy companies and induced americans to borrow more and more to buy into the housing market.

The net effect was to pump up the US economy in the past 5 years and give us a false sense of security about how we are doing economically. It didn't help that the GW Bush administration appointed incompetant or corrupt regulators who allowed poor lending practices and hiding of problems to persist in lending and investing.

The result was a bubble economy based on inflated assets which was at risk of collapsing once people started having trouble paying thier bills.

Once that happened these foreign investors began to pull large sums of money out of investsmsnts in mutual funds and energy stocks. Fund managers had to sell assets at unfavorable prices to pay of investors. This destabilized investments where prices fell.

As prices fell, people continued to panic and pulled more meny from investments, resulting in lower stock prices with more people panicing.

In the meanwhile foreign investors sat back having pulled investments out of the market. Obviously they lost some moeny, but when you consider there is a cost to waging a war, these losses were tolerable and acceptable, similar to Reagan and the US waging economic war on the soviet Union in the 1980's.

When the carange is complete, these foreign investors will swoop in and use oil money to buy up US assets at cheap prices, while many Americans wonder where their retiurement funds went.

As companies contract or fail, jobs will be lost, hurting our economy and the ability of our economy to recover.

Does this sound far fetched, or could we be losing an economic war most Americans cannot fathom ?? From where I am sitting investors in Saudi arabia, Dubai, the Far East are sitting a lot bettter of than we are. I think an economic war to disrupt our economy may be happening... think about how things might change in the next 2 years.

I'm sitting on the sidelines, down about 20% but about 75-80% out of my investments. I'm wondering what happened.

Did we just suffer the first major attack of an economic war..??

[SoCalZX2]

It would be interesting wouldn't it...

The only thing is, at some point, economy's can recover. It would take a national change on a personal and governmental level, but the economy could recover. So unless some physical attack is used to compound the effort (unless they're banking on us never recovering), the economic attack would be slightly fruitless.

At least in my opinion.

[JonsZX2SR]

Have you noticed that every time the market has tried to recover over the past 7 days, large investors stepped in, sold, started an panic and the market wound up dropping, especially at the end of the day.

There are also solid US companies, with planned cash reserves, that have been buying back their own stock. I am familiar with a few, and have positioned myself to buy as well.

If I wanted to wage a war in this day and age, I'd do it economically. It doesn't help the US though, that so many Americans do not use credit wisely. These people can be targeted as the weak link of the US economy and be target ved and manipulated by foreign controlled financial firms.

You say the economy can recover. However, if people have lost $1 trillion from retirement funds they are going to be able to spend less. This could reduce consumer spending and confidence, cause a contraction and put people out of work. If 15% of the US workers lose good paying jobs it will take a long time to recover from a recession.

Meanwhile a combined $1 Trillion loss by gov't investors in Dubai, Saudi arabia, Iran, and the far east is something they can absorb, to a large extent the money is controlled by gov't agencies, not people who will feel the pain. In addition, $1 Trillion might be a reasonable cost of an economic war.

They can also recoup losses by buying up cheap US assets further gaining control of our economy. At some point they could stifle investment, job growth and keep the US economy from growing.

Also consider that the $700 billion used to bail out financial institutions and the $300 billion used to bail out home owners are funds that are unavailable to support our military or to cause mayhem overseas.

As far fetched as all of this is, you could build an argument if you look deep enough.

[capitalcrew]

It isn't even a matter of looking deep enough, everything is there. There is no doubt in my mind that foreign countries are working to destroy our economy, and its working, in so many different ways.

[SoCalZX2]

You don't have to argue hard to make your points. I haven't watched the market enough to make the determination you have about investors moving around and selling when things look like they can recover.

You're definitely right though, the average Joe is the weak link economically for this country. It doesn't help that our Gov't is just as dumb... if not dumber when it comes to finances. They have really opened the doors for this as a possibility.

[Buster]

It isn't even a matter of looking deep enough, everything is there. There is no doubt in my mind that foreign countries are working to destroy our economy, and its working, in so many different ways.

China

[Buster]

Today:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aP5mpMUORBWM

[JonsZX2SR]

Consider the linked article, discussing the wild swinges of our financial markets...

Wall Street Vertigo (http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/10/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm?postversion=2008101015)

Someone could be manipulating swings in the market to create a completely unstable financial situation, until investors panic, flee and the market comes crashing down. If investors are unwilling to re-invest in the market out of panic and fear (caused by manipulations) the economy will take a long time to recover.

Consider that prices of Ford and GM may have been targeted to destroy confidence in these companies to either bankrupt them or make them easy takover targets of foreign powers.

Now imagine, the next time Ford, GM and the UAW are negotiating, the companies make a ridiculous offer, the union goes on strike and foreign powers decide to close the doors putting a large block of Americans out of work. They then sell off or destroy assets to prevent rebuilding of these companies.

It could be a lot cheaper to destroy companies this way than with bombs. What happens if foreign powers get control of power companies, telecommunications, petroleum, gas and coal producers and what's left of the banking industry ??

Imagine a large portion of US businesses disapperaing overnight and the US economy becoming more like Mexico, ripe for new foreign owned businesses setting up shop.

In addition to middle eastern powers, China, Japan and Venezuela could be part of a consortium to bring the US down.

About the only safe place to re-invest when we hit bottom are a few US based but global manufacturing companies that are still heavily US held, who compete globally. I posted a list in another thread.

[Buster]

It is also smart to "buy low", but like you said, Americans need to be the ones to be smart enough to buy/

[JonsZX2SR]

Consider that if a group of countries have a few Trillion dollars, can afford to lose that money in an economic war and are determined to use that money to disrupt the US economy rather than make money, they could invest the funds the deliberately buy and sell their holding to disrupt the market.

It may make sense to buy low, but if every time there is a normal bottom, minsipulations drive the market lower, even normal americans will lose their money.

Eventually, the market is so depressed that Americans don't have money to reinvest because a) resources were depleted by manipulated false bottoms and b) so many companies have been bought and shuttered by manipulated investments that 15-25% of americans are out of work or in low paying jobs.

At that point foreign investors, still holding more money come in, buy and either a) own the US economy or b) destroy what is left leaving us a vanquished 3rd world nation.

China, Japan, and middle eastern economic powers then control the world economy. Smart people find work outside the US and the brain drain curtails future innovation and growth.

[SoCalZX2]

Americans are "smart enough" to buy low... BUT no one has the money to because they're almost all overstretched financially themselves.

Even me, who'd love to get started in heavy investing... although a bit more timid now with the relentless decline... is still in the process of paying off personal debts. It'll be even more imperative IMHO now to be, and remain debt free and sock cash away until this write themselves...

So even if this takes 2-3 years, and my wife and I sock money away as we would investing... we could buy at near the bottom when it starts correcting, we'd have a large sum of money (for us anyways...), say about 30-40k socked away to start off with.

[SoCalZX2]

I'd say I'm secure in my job... but if the economy fails to that point, even my job would be in jeopardy. I work in the "banking" field for credit union support.

Of course if that happens, even having 40k socked away wouldn't matter because then it's like going to Europe with Ruples... or whatever that currency was that tanked years ago.

[capitalcrew]

Dude, whatever happens I live in the country and my dad owes 0 on his house. We can hunt for food, get out own water and everything else on our own.

Fuck it. :shrug: lol

[SoCalZX2]

Dude, whatever happens I live in the country and my dad owes 0 on his house. We can hunt for food, get out own water and everything else on our own.

Fuck it. :shrug: lol

My wife and family will be moving in with you... I'll buy a gun and you can teach me LOL

[JonsZX2SR]

I'm am at 77% of where I was a yaer ago, about 75% cashed out and waiting to pounce. The global companies I am targeting are behaving as predicted with much smaller swings. I allso know that some are positioned to buy back their own stock and are doing so.

I believe I can get to 115% of where I was a year ago in 2-3 years if I keep working my current job, and back to 90% if I am forced to retire early. My goal was to retire with 125% of last years assets, so I'm not happy about the situation, but better than the average American.


You're definitely right though, the average Joe is the weak link economically for this country. It doesn't help that our Gov't is just as dumb... if not dumber when it comes to finances. They have really opened the doors for this as a possibility.

Consider that foreign powers that might be waging economic war are also probably smarter than our current adminstration. (I am refferring to GW Bush, the recent congreses and all the appointed officials.) In addition to the average American, we also want smarter leaders. We don't want any more 'C' students, people who graduated at the bottom of their classes in college or former beauty queens. Throw in at least 66% of congress and political hacks.

Ford is an interesting situation. At 1.99 per share is it an opportunity for someone with funds to make an investment ? Is it a manipulated trap to sucker American investors in, then kill the price with fast sell off by foreign investors. This could destroy investor confidence, force the company into a sell off or bankrupcy, then foreign investors could buy back in at pennies per share and shutter the doors.

A lot of people here may not trust Obama and dislike Biden, but I believe they could grasp the idea of an economic war better than McCain, Palin or Bush. Dick Cheney is probably intelligent to graspo what's going on, but so corrupt he doesn't care. he's covered, so why care about the country ?

Imagine if 50 of the US Fortune 500 companies were targeted for destruction and manipulated out of business. How many decent paying jobs could be lost ??

[capitalcrew]

My wife and family will be moving in with you... I'll buy a gun and you can teach me LOL

You'll have to pay rent. ;)

[JonsZX2SR]

They can pay with squirrels, pidgeons and other varmints you can eat and with firewood for cooking. Your dad will have to pay for taxes, a small amount for maintenance items and for ammunition.

My brother has told his neer-do-well in-laws they can live in a trailer on the back corner of his property. They have to pay for the trailer, hook ups and if they don't pay for services they will be cut off.

Capitalcrew, where does you father live outside of Albany ?? There's great country up in that area.

[capitalcrew]

Yes there is! He lives in knox, just above altamont.

We have some cash around, it would keep us fine on taxes for a while.

I do agree with you though.. all of these economic problems are not due to domestic causes. There are countries in this world who do not want us as an economic super power, and with the way things are working, we won't be for long.

[JonsZX2SR]

...I lived on the other side of the river, Troy, Brunswick and Valley Falls, I have thought about moving back sometime in the future.

[capitalcrew]

I don't spend a lot of time on the other side of the river, except for school.

[JonsZX2SR]

A lot of places I hung out and played music are closed or have changed considerably. QE2, 288 Lark, September's, Bogie's, JB Scott's / JB's theater, and places in Saratoga and Lake George. The campus ballroom at SUNY Albany and the Student Union were a couple of other good places. I did see a show at RPI when I was back for the 50th aniversary of WRPI-FM last fall.

Where are the places that have good live music these days ??

[capitalcrew]

There isn't much left to be honest with you.

[random_hero]

Lake George....

drunken high school girls, bearded harley riders, keystone ice, and....I guess a lake?


Ahhh...good times, good times.

[capitalcrew]

I need to regrow my beard for americade.

[capitalcrew]

this is a good thread though.. this should get back on topic methinks.

[Buster]

Americans are "smart enough" to buy low... BUT no one has the money to because they're almost all overstretched financially themselves.

Even me, who'd love to get started in heavy investing... although a bit more timid now with the relentless decline... is still in the process of paying off personal debts. It'll be even more imperative IMHO now to be, and remain debt free and sock cash away until this write themselves...

So even if this takes 2-3 years, and my wife and I sock money away as we would investing... we could buy at near the bottom when it starts correcting, we'd have a large sum of money (for us anyways...), say about 30-40k socked away to start off with.


I'd like to think so and there are MANY savvy investors in our economy, but there are many more people who rely on others for their investment decisions or just don't do it right.

An example: all of the people nearing retirement age that are panicking about the stock market's temporary (it always is) drop. They should not be affected by this because if you're that close to retirement, within 5 years, you need to get all of your money OUT of risky investments and the stock market. It needs to be in safe modes like bonds, notes and even higher-interest savings accounts. To keep your retirement in stocks until the end is just asking for trouble.

[mechtech]

This is not just a theory, but is much more an actual fact [with minor variations].


Please Google Saul Alinsky and his demonic nefarious schemes, and his influence on Obama.
Scary and horrifying, and Obama is a disciple.

[Buster]

^

Stop being racist. :rofl: