Another taxation thread...

[PHeller]

My opinion?

How much income do you really need? I can understand having investments, but having 6 million bucks sitting in a bank account, not doing anything, seems like a bit much. Say you spend 1mil on feeding the hungry, you've still got 5 million just sitting around. Say you spend 1 million on a corporation that can produce 100 jobs. You've still got 4 million bucks, doing nothing.

You can buy a real nice house at in the wood, with plenty of land, some of that you could even sell of for a profit.

You could buy a few really expensive cars, maybe even a jet.

and you'd still have a million or so left.

And then next year? You'll probably get more than 6 million in income.

So why do you need all of it?

Taxes should be like a loan. The people of the U.S. loaned you a safe school, a good enough life to successful, freedom of speech and religion.

The more successful you are, the more you owe back to the country.

When I bring home a $900 paycheck, it sucks to see $400 bucks going to the government, but most of the time, I don't really care, because I now have $900 bucks.

If I already had 3 houses, an awesome education, 5 cars, a million dollar business, and 5 million in investments, I don't think paying 50% of my income would have much effect on me.

Would it bother you?

[SoCalZX2]

Because most of the people that have 6mil in the bank, took 30-40 years to amass that much and that is their nestegg. It's their safeguard, it's the inheritance that they leave behind. It allows them to live with dignity, allows them to give like no other.

So while those that make MILLIONS per year may have "too much", they also LIVE like they make that much.

[Big Mizz]

Because most of the people that have 6mil in the bank, took 30-40 years to amass that much and that is their nestegg. It's their safeguard, it's the inheritance that they leave behind. It allows them to live with dignity, allows them to give like no other.

So while those that make MILLIONS per year may have "too much", they also LIVE like they make that much.

Please cite sources that can verify that the majority of the wealthy amassed it over decades.

Yet again, you claim they give. Please show me sources that back up that claim as well.

I won't hold my breath because being the conservative you are, facts won't get in your way whilst spouting off.

[SoCalZX2]

Please cite sources that can verify that the majority of the wealthy amassed it over decades.

Yet again, you claim they give. Please show me sources that back up that claim as well.

I won't hold my breath because being the conservative you are, facts won't get in your way whilst spouting off.

Provide me links they don't give? Provide me links that the majority of millionaires haven't earned it.

Read a book Mike. The Millionaire Next Door. A LONG study of America's affluent population; how they lived; and how they amassed their money.

Quit being so fucking bitter. That part about "not being a tool", you need to read over and quit letting your ass get in your way of a polite discussion. If you can't discuss this topic legitimately and without contempt for someone of a different view, then stay out of this discussion. I'm no n00b for you to slay, and your petty responses and lame attacks of my character do nothing but show your true colors.

[Big Mizz]

Provide me links they don't give? Provide me links that the majority of millionaires haven't earned it.

Know the rules of debate...you made the claim so back it up.


Quit being so fucking bitter. That part about "not being a tool", you need to read over and quit letting your ass get in your way of a polite discussion. If you can't discuss this topic legitimately and without contempt for someone of a different view, then stay out of this discussion. I'm no n00b for you to slay, and your petty responses and lame attacks of my character do nothing but show your true colors.

Spare me. You have offered nothing to the discussion but standard right-wing talking points. You assert the poor are poor by choice and the rich are rich through valorous work. It's hogwash.

So...in summation...how about you try posting some facts to back up your claims?

[SoCalZX2]

You can't claim any of your own. I've given you a source. It's a book! Read it, then come back. Until then, you can't claim crap Mike. I've read the book, you haven't, yet you're still trying to claim I haven't offered anything.

I HAVE backed it up. You're just not willing to take it as I have. Have YOU backed up any of YOUR claims? I still see nothing but your bitter BS talk of how all rich people are hording their money, and none of them give... None of them have EVER worked a day in their life...

Who's touting lines without backing them up? Certainly doesn't seem like me.

http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Thomas-Stanley/dp/0671015206

[Big Mizz]

You can't claim any of your own. I've given you a source. It's a book! Read it, then come back. Until then, you can't claim crap Mike. I've read the book, you haven't, yet you're still trying to claim I haven't offered anything.

I am impressed! You have ONE WHOLE SOURCE...a book...that backs up your claims.

Wait...no corroborating sources?

I suppose that I can claim that all people who live in California are flaming homosexuals because I read it in a book. I mean after all, if it's in a book it must be true!


I HAVE backed it up.

Again, no you haven't. If you were to submit a term paper on a certain subject and only used one source, you'd fail miserably. Why is it that you think this effort passes?

[SoCalZX2]

LMAO, it's a long study of the affluent.

Just because YOU won't accept it doesn't mean it's not a reliable source. This isn't a bias piece of work. This is a best selling book on how to become and stay wealthy. Sorry you don't like it. Not my problem.

I've shown you mine, now show me yours. Or, if you're unwilling to do so, just walk away with your tail tucked. You can't even provide 1 source that the majority of people with wealth DON'T give... Otherwise you'd be trying to bury me with your "evidence". So you're the one really just plucking off some line without ANY evidence. You talk about me "submitting a term paper" with just 1 source. What would you say about your sensational claims with ZERO sources?

Keep on keeping on Mike.

[Big Mizz]

What sensational claims? I merely said that the supposition that the majority of the wealthy donate and donate a lot is hogwash. I never said that many don't give. I said that it is irrational to say that the majority do without hard statistics.

[SoCalZX2]

It's only irrational because YOU don't believe it. So in your mind they DON'T give to help people.

I'm unaware of where all the money comes from then that provide scholarships, and habitat for humanity and other privately funded reach out programs (those are just a couple of the hundreds of examples about what the affluent for this country).

Hmm, where does that money come from?

[zxtwou2]

what's the point of having 6 million dollars just sitting there? watch our economy liquidate itself and ask yourself if you wish you had 6 million dollars on hold as security. i'm hoping to have about that much when i retire...that's why i'm putting myself through the hell of working a demanding full time job, with a full time family, and full time college for the next 6 years....so i can get a 6 figure job and start putting as much as i can into a retirement fund and investments. if you think that if i have a few million dollars and i didn't work my ass off for it...come live a day in my shoes..and then i won't have to be mean enough to tell you to GFY...because you might understand.

[PHeller]

I think there is a difference between a yearly income of $250,000 and a yearly income of $41,000,000 and even a lowly sum of $6,000,000.

If you're making $250,000 a year, you're doing better than most doctors, engineers, nurses, and pretty much anyone else who has a vital part in society.

That's what I don't get. It seems that the more people make, the less valuable their work becomes. Sure they are providing jobs, but I'm also sure their are people out there that make millions ever year and don't own a business, and the only jobs they creates are those who build the extravagant amenities of their lives.

You wanna change the tax brackets? Change it so Nurses, Doctors, EMTs, Firefighters, Engineers, Electricians, Plumbers, Teachers and all those other people and their business that are essential to our quality of life are those who benefit the most.

Why do people from India and China come to America? Because they know that all it takes is some awesome study skills and good grades, and you can have a jobs that will pay 10x what a job in their home country would pay. They aren't interested in becoming Rock Stars or rap artists, or starting multi-billion dollar corporations, they are interested in making good money using the cheapest thing they've got, their heads. Yet too much of our American youth avoids those jobs and opportunities because they think they can make big bucks an easier way.

Why don't we give even more incentives for the most required people in our lives? Why is it a lawyer (on average) makes as much as family doctor? Or a information specialist makes as much as a Civil Engineer? Or a car salesman can make as much as Nurse or even more than an EMT?

Example :
I think every musician out there that makes over a $250,000 a year should have to feel the wrath of taxation, because they are basking in the wealth of capitalism and really doing nothing for society or the free market with the exception of creating music that sometimes, very rarely, is worth listening too. They started making music for the love of music, why does that change into making music for the love of money? Higher taxes on over-paid musicians would certainly prevent bands from selling-out a least.

[mechtech]

This thread has elements showing that the core problem is jealousy of the rich, with ensuant bitterness.

[SoCalZX2]

I wouldn't say jealousy...

But the overall thought that the wealthy in this country don't give enormous amounts ontop of already large tax sums is kinnda funny. Those who are of the opinion the rich need to give them their money, should be slapped. But thats my opinion.

[JonsZX2SR]

This may be controversial but I see the increasing national debt as the thing most likely to crush us. Before the tax laws get changed, i would like to see a 2% surcharge put on everyone's annual income taxes, rich, middle class, poor.

100% of this surcharge would be earmarked to pay off past national debt. That means is you owe $100 on annual taxes, you pay $102. If you owe $10,000 you pay $10,200.

I understand the lawmakers like to play shenanigans with our tax money, but we need to get the national debt under control and something like this could help get it under control in 10-12 years. We aren't going to be able to do this in 1-2 years without further damaging an already shakey economy, but we can't let the debt crush us either.

[SoCalZX2]

This may be controversial but I see the increasing national debt as the thing most likely to crush us. Before the tax laws get changed, i would like to see a 2% surcharge put on everyone's annual income taxes, rich, middle class, poor.

100% of this surcharge would be earmarked to pay off past national debt. That means is you owe $100 on annual taxes, you pay $102. If you owe $10,000 you pay $10,200.

I understand the lawmakers like to play shenanigans with our tax money, but we need to get the national debt under control and something like this could help get it under control in 10-12 years. We aren't going to be able to do this in 1-2 years without further damaging an already shakey economy, but we can't let the debt crush us either.

I don't disagree. IF we could actually force the law makers to pay off the debt w/ the money it'd be a great idea. If you recall, that was the only way I wasn't pissed about raising taxes.

[JonsZX2SR]

That's why I would want the 2% surcharge earmarked for debt reduction. The problem 9anbd we agree on this) is lawmakers can't be trusted, and would try to do something else with these funds.

Still we have to get the national debt under control. Failling to do so because we can't trust politicians isn't a valid excuse. If we fail from inaction,we still fail.

[SoCalZX2]

That's why I would want the 2% surcharge earmarked for debt reduction. The problem 9anbd we agree on this) is lawmakers can't be trusted, and would try to do something else with these funds.

Still we have to get the national debt under control. Failling to do so because we can't trust politicians isn't a valid excuse. If we fail from inaction,we still fail.

This I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with. Problem is, how do we get the current/new administration/congress to feel the urgency in this matter the same way we do?

What action can we take? Besides voting in new people...

[Big Mizz]

What action can we take? Besides voting in new people...

George Carlin (RIP) had the best idea yet... :rocknana:

"Now, I don't care about capital punishment one way or another 'cuz I know it dosn't do anything. It doesn't do anything, 'cept maybe satisfy a kind of Biblical need for revenge. You know, if you read The Bible, you see that it's full of retrebution and revenge. So really, capital punishment is kind of a religious ritual. It's a purification right. It's a modern sacrament. And as long as that's true, I say, let's liven it up a little! I honestly believe that if you make the death penalty a little more entertaining and learn to market it correctly, you just might be able to raise enough money to balance the stupid fucking budget!! Balance the stupid fucking budget!!

And don't forget, the polls show the American people want capital punishment, and they want a balanced budget. And I think even in a fake democracy, people ought to get what they want once in a while. Just to feed this illusion that they're really in charge. Let's use capital punishment the same way we use sports and television in this country, to distract people and take their minds off how bad they're being fucked by the upper one percent. Now, unfortunately, unfortunately Monday Night Football doesn't last long enough. What we really need is year-round capital punishment on TV every night with sponsors. Gotta have sponsors. I'm sure as long as we're killing people Marlboro Cigarettes and Dow Chemical would be proud to participate! Proud to participate! Balance the stupid fucking budget!!

And- and let me say this to you my interesting judaeo-christian friends. Not only- not only do I recommend crucifixions, I'd be in favor of bringing back beheadings!! Huh? Beheadings on TV, slow-motion, instant replay? And maybe you could let the heads roll down a little hill. And fall into one of five numbered holes. Let the people at home gamble on which hole the head is going to fall into. And you do it in a stadium so the mob can gamble on it too. Raise a little more money. And if you want to expand the violence a little longer to sell a few more commercials, instead of using an axe, you do the beheadings with a hand saw! Hey, don't bail out on me now, God damnit! The blood is already on our hands, all we're talking about is a matter of degree. You want something a little more delicate, we'll do the beheadings with an olive fork. That would be nice. And it would take a good God damn long time. There's a lot of good things we could be doing.

When's the last time we burned someone at the stake? It's been too long! Here's another form of capital punishment, comes out of a nice, rich, religious tradition. Burning people at the stake. Sponsor: Britchford Charcoal. And you put it on TV on Sunday mornings. The Sunday Morning Evangelical Send Us An Offering Praise Jesus Human Bonfire! You don't think that would get big ratings? In this sick fucking country?! Shit you'd have people skipping church to wstch this stuff! And you take the money they send in and the offerings and you use it to balance the budget.

What about boiling people in oil? Boy those were the days weren't they? You get the oil going real good, you know, a nice high rolling boil. And then slowly, at the end of a rope, you lower the perpatrator headfirst into the boiling oil. Huh? You talk about fun shit! And just to encourage citizen participation, you let the mob in the stadium control the speed of the rope. Good, clean, wholesome family entertainment. The kids'll love it. The kids'll love it. And at the same time they're enjoying themselves, we're teaching then a nice, Christian moral lesson. Boiling people in oil. Sponsor: Crisco! And maybe, maybe instead of boiling all these guys every now and then you could french-fry a couple of them, you know. French-fried felons. Dip a guy in egg batter, just for a goof, you know? Kind of a Tempura thing, huh? Jeffrey Dahmer neverthought of this shit did he?! Jeffrey Dahmer, eat you heart out!! Which is an interesting thought, in and of itself!

Alright, enough nostalgia, what about some modern forms of capital punishment. How about we throw a guy off the World Trade Center and whoever he lands on wins the Publisher's Clearing House? OK something a little more sophisticated, you dip a guy in brown gravy and lock him in a small room with a wolverine who's high on angel dust. There's one guy's not going to be fucking with to many kids at the bus stop for a while. Here's something really nice you could do. You shoot a guy out of a high-speed catapult... right into a brick wall!! Trouble is, it would be over too quick. No good for TV, you know? You'd have to do a whole bunch of guys right in a row. Rapid-fire capital punishment. Fifteen catapults, while you're shooting off one, you're loading up the others. 'Course every now and then you would have to stop to clean off the wall. Cleanliness... right next to Godliness. Alright hi-tech. I sense some of yous are waiting for hi-tech. I got it. You take a small, tactical nuclear weapon... and stick it up a guy's ass! A thermo-nuclear suppository! Preparation H-Bomb! You talk about fallout, huh? Woah! Or, you take the bomb and you stick it just inside that little hole on the end of a guy's dick. Yeah, a bomb, in a dick! When it goes off, the guy wouldn't know whether he was cumming or going!! Ah! Get outta here!! I gotcha! Hey... listen... I got alot of good ideas. Balance the stupid fucking budget."

[SoCalZX2]

lmfao, GC rocked. RIP indeed.