Auto X: Left Foot Braking

[BernardZX2]

Does anyone left foot brake? Does it help that much?

[00zx2s/r]

1: wrong section. needs to be in the auto-x section

2: I don't, but heard it helps a lot. because then you can keep your foot on the gas at all times and not have to switch back and forth. The difference between a tenth of a second can determine 1st or 15th...

[Blue ZX2]

I did all the time in my neon. They always said it drivers ed not to but I think if your skilled enough you can handle it.

[ZX2guy19]

I always press down a lot harder with my left foot for some reason. I think it would be hard but do-able for sure.

[Skuce]

it's a hard skill to learn

[BernardZX2]

1: wrong section. needs to be in the auto-x section

2: I don't, but heard it helps a lot. because then you can keep your foot on the gas at all times and not have to switch back and forth. The difference between a tenth of a second can determine 1st or 15th...



Sorry about that. Didn't see it ealrier. Can a mod move it?

Found a few articles online. I'm auto Xing tomorow and thinking about trying it. I've been experimenting with it the past couple of days driving around. We'll see.

[Manbearpig]

Ask Kevin about left foot braking.

His instructor told him too....then he tried "regular" braking....his times were better the latter.

But I'd agree...if you took enough time to learn to do it right and practised...it would undoubtedly be easier and possible quicker.

[BernardZX2]

Everything says you'll be slower LFB untill you get very good at it.

[ZX2guy19]

Then if you had a 5-speed you would use two pedals for the left foot instead of two for the right? Sounds a bit redundant to me.

[Apex]

You left-foot brake in a corner to eliminate understeer. You press the brake to create more load transfer to the front wheels (which lessens understeer), while keeping your right foot on the gas.

[Beodude123]

If you had properly spaced pedals, heel toe braking would be possible... In an MTX, left foot braking really wouldn't give you much advantage, since you would have to switch from the gas to brake all the time. In an ATX, it would make such a little difference that it would hardly be noticeable.

[Bos Engel]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=224464&Page=3&CT=V&FLT=34|

Taken from Focus Fanatics

Using left foot braking when entering a turn (while maintaining part throttle) will greatly help to induce oversteer.

I also use it to slow the car a bit while staying on the throttle in turns.
The advantage is that you don't have to release the throttle to apply the brakes,
which unloads the suspension, and upsets the balance of the car.

Lastly, using left foot braking when accelerating out of a corner (especially in an open differential car)
will stop the inside tire from spinning when it loses traction, and give you better acceleration coming out of that turn.


The other thing he isn't mentioning. When you hold the brakes on slightly in a turbo-charged car, you can "cheat" the boost to come up, by appling the "lag" to the brakes. IN other words, he can use the brakes to hold the car back a bit, and be at full boost ( or at least much higher) when he exits the corner. This, I believe is where he is getting most of his drive off the turn. Darn boosted focuses in Europe! We used to use this technic when we street tuned wrx's and sti's. It allows you to achieve good boost without going 110.

[powder]

"Boost holding" is the general term for it. I did it when drag racing. It's the same thing when auto-x'ing. The idea is to eliminate boost lag, as you said, cuz it can add up to a second onto your time.

The part i don't understand is "good boost w/o going 110." Doesn't make sense to me, sorry. I dunno what you consider "good boost" but i can hold 15psi from 2500-7k rpms.

And the only time you get boost lag is when you let off the throttle. You can, "boost hold" as i said by reving as you're slowing down into a corner. It will not do it if you just hold the throttle, you have to feather it. If you time it right you can do it w/o using L foot on the brake though. You ain't tryin for ride quality in auto-x so i don't see what eh problem is w/ a little bit of a rough ride. W/ my very little experience w/ boosted cars in auto-x, i can tell you the later the braking, the better. I do believe that's what your friend was talking about. Last minute braking on boosted cars is crucial.

[Bos Engel]

I just copied and pasted that from Focus Fanatics. I've never owned a boosted car and the only time I've ever driven one was on a test drive.

[iceracer]

Left foot braking is dificult to learn to do it properly. It is also hard on the front brakes.
I've tried it. Don't like it. I don't use it. I tend to steer with the throttle more.

[tre2000zx2]

bottom line is this..much like heel toe braking mentioned in here (which I belive is a BASIC ..MUST HAVE driving skill along with threashold braking that does WONDERS for your times and car control)

Some people it HELPS

Some people it DOESNT

Some CAN do it

Somet CAN'T do it

Some like it

Some don't

I know it's not much help to you but it looks like this is one of the things only YOU can tell if it will work for you in YOUR situation and with YOUR skills and ability only way to find out is to try.. and not just once .. it'll take some time to get used to and lots of practice before you can see any benifits and MAYBE YOU wont...but don't give up right away I would say something like this you should try to get a GOOD TALENTED racer to ride along a few practice runs to give you REALTIME pointers as tehy can watch your footwork, timing on the track and actualy feel what the car is doin to tell if your to hard on the brakes to soft to late ..to early ... that kinda thing this is where forums can only get you so far and only seat time and lap times will have the final say ...

[ZeeEcksTwo]

The few times I have auto-crossed, I did what I always do when driving around; Heel & Toe. The only time I do/did left foot braking is when I was preparing to launch my SHO or my GTI at the strip or occasionally on the street. I would suggest that, but there really isn't too much shifting involved [depending on the size of the course].

[Hypnose Zx2]

it would be hard...

[mechtech]

Apex has it backwards, and gives dangerous advice.
If you brake in a hard turn, the tires are loaded even more, and will slip, thus incurring MORE oversteer.

[00zx2s/r]

Apex has it backwards, and gives dangerous advice.
If you brake in a hard turn, the tires are loaded even more, and will slip, thus incurring MORE oversteer.

it's very true. I found that out on the last turn always. You will have to slam on the brakes but if you feel them starting to slip then let off and just tap your breaks through the corner

[TTFOWIA]

If you had properly spaced pedals, heel toe braking would be possible... In an MTX, left foot braking really wouldn't give you much advantage, since you would have to switch from the gas to brake all the time. In an ATX, it would make such a little difference that it would hardly be noticeable.

Why "if you had properly spaced pedals"? I do heel-toe braking all the time in my Z

[Beodude123]

Would you tell me how to do it? I'm definitely interested. Not that I do it a lot, but you know...

[zxtwou2]

Why "if you had properly spaced pedals"? I do heel-toe braking all the time in my Z

how? unless you can dig your heel down far enough into the gas and still have your toes on the brakes. if so, your toes must be pointing back toward the steering wheel when you do this. our accelerator would have to be spaced back or the brake forward for it to be easily done.

left foot braking is quite the skill...i can't do it that well. i have ceramic pads, SS lines, and rear discs with the disc/drum proportioning valve...so they lock up if i don't ease back on them a bit. with them this touchy, it's hard to teach my left foot not to just go down and let up, like i do with the clutch. it's a totally different feel.

[zxtwou2]

it's very true. I found that out on the last turn always. You will have to slam on the brakes but if you feel them starting to slip then let off and just tap your breaks through the corner

one of the things i was meaning to teach you at the race...was when NOT to brake. you are smooth out there on the course, which is always good...but you need to leave the brake alone if at all possible once you execute a turn. the only way to trail brake effectively is if you are still on the gas, with the clutch out. you kept clutching in when you braked...which might be why your clutch was smoking at the end of the day.

what you want to do...is brake as hard as you can before the corner...but don't shed all that speed. you want to carry as much momentum throught the corner as possible. once you turn in and are on..or feathering...the gas, you should be committed to the corner. only use the brake lightly to correct for what you can't with throttle and steering inputs. the reason i'm so insane out here is because i control the pitch of the car with the throttle, not with the brakes. also...imagine a string attatched to your right foot and the steering wheel. dont immediately punch the throttle...give it a good amount, and the more you come to the center position (the more you straighten out the wheel) the more you roll on the gas.

[TTFOWIA]

how? unless you can dig your heel down far enough into the gas and still have your toes on the brakes. if so, your toes must be pointing back toward the steering wheel when you do this. our accelerator would have to be spaced back or the brake forward for it to be easily done.

left foot braking is quite the skill...i can't do it that well. i have ceramic pads, SS lines, and rear discs with the disc/drum proportioning valve...so they lock up if i don't ease back on them a bit. with them this touchy, it's hard to teach my left foot not to just go down and let up, like i do with the clutch. it's a totally different feel.

in fact I do it to rev match when I'm about to enter a turn... so its done fairly quick... try it, it is possible. I do it and know about 2-3 other ZX2 owners that do.

[ZeeEcksTwo]

how? unless you can dig your heel down far enough into the gas and still have your toes on the brakes. if so, your toes must be pointing back toward the steering wheel when you do this. our accelerator would have to be spaced back or the brake forward for it to be easily done.

That's not exactly what I do. I keep my right foot centered inbetween the gas & brake pedals. I lean my foot to the right to rev match while I'm under braking; meaning my foot is already depressing the brake. My left foot is pretty much clutch only, unless I need to brace myself on the fake dead pedal.

[BernardZX2]

I'm pretty sure that is the only way to "heel/toe" in our car. (Foot in the center between gas and brakes.) That's how I do heel/toe as well. The pedals are too close together.

As for left foot braking (LFB) I did it at the auto X last sunday I suck at it. I expected that though. It worked really well for the slolam (sp) and lane changes. I could not modulate the brakes good enough with my left foot as I do with my right foot for the other stuff. Or in other words, for manuevers where you just want to transfer weight to the front wheels for an instanst without letting up on the throttle , LFB seems to work really well.

The whole point of this is to trail brake/induce oversteer. I kept braking too much before I got in the corner to do either. For F/I cars it also allows you to preload and boost earlier. That worked well for me but because of the power on tap I would spin the tires if I abruptly got off the brakes. So with LFB as with any other driving technique you have to be "smooth."

[Apex]

Apex has it backwards, and gives dangerous advice.
If you brake in a hard turn, the tires are loaded even more, and will slip, thus incurring MORE oversteer.

But that's what I said, less understeer= more oversteer.